Author Topic: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)  (Read 7097 times)

Offline JTMeissner

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BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« on: December 26, 2015, 11:28:48 AM »
Though I am somewhat hesitant to add yet another rudder project (YARP) to the CPYOA, I made a concerted effort to document progress and made plenty of errors that others may find useful (documented failures too).  The tl;dr version of the post will be added, but the end results so far are below.  I still need to fair it out but am awaiting some better primer and bottom paint.

Down position:


Raised position:


I have to figure out how to get the boat in the very crowded garage before I start it's retrofit.  I planned on doing a lot more before the holiday break was over, but such is life.

-Justin

Offline JTMeissner

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2015, 11:51:56 AM »
Day 1: Brought the rudder assembly home from storage to begin project.  First order of business was disassembly and removing all the old paint.  I had refinished the tiller previously, but it was time to tackle the rest of the steering system.  The paint was in pretty bad shape, and I have no idea what it was.  As usual, pictures are shrunk here, but can be clicked to the full-size version at the CPYOA Photobucket and there are more pictures in the albums.


I marked and measured many of the features/characteristics for reference.  More measurements in the album.


This measurement became important later:


I had never removed this pin from the casting (in about five years of owning the boat):


So began paint removal (wear PPE, this is dusty and who knows what this stuff is made of).  The wire brush proved it could be scraped off, then I switched to power tools:


Lots of pitting on the bottom of the rudder casting:


My guess this is so they know what type boat it is for?  My hull number is 16 as well:


And the naked rudder:


-Justin

Offline JTMeissner

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2015, 12:54:53 PM »
Days 2-3 were spent forming the foil shape.  I have a computer program (Excel spreadsheet) that will spit out a graph/plot of points depending on the foil characteristics you want.  Since the rudder is 12 inches wide, I chose a 14 inch width with about an inch thickness which comes out as a NACA-14 sized rudder profile.  I then had to reverse one of the printed images (after taping together two pieces of paper) in order to get a full wing shape.  The program has tabs to show if you wanted to use ply-fillets and how they fit together, but I'll save that for another discussion/PM.  I was going to use foam, so the full profile was to be used.


I laid this out on a piece of cellular vinyl planking, marked the points, and shaped the form.


I also transferred this shape to a plywood form to be used to check shape later.


With two PVC ends and foam, I glued them in place on the rudder.  I had made a "nose" out of 2x2 treated wood I had lying around, but didn't document that part well (sorry).  I routed a 1/4 inch in the post to allow about 1.5 inches to stick out front, then planed it down into the nose shape required.


Using the wood template, I sawed, sanded, and shaped.  I made plenty of errors in the bigger cuts which can be seen in the gouges.


BIG MISTAKE #1 MADE: I had some left over West Systems epoxy from previous projects and attempted to fill in the large gouges with thickened epoxy.  First off, the temperature was too cold (less than 60 degrees).  Then the epoxy had been sitting for over a year and change.  This stuff did not want to cook off, even after bringing in a heater to raise the temperature.  I had to let it sit for two days for a trip and fortunately when I came back it had finally set.  

I switched to Bondo's Marine Glass filler product which was readily available to rework the form.


-Justin
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 01:20:39 PM by JTMeissner »

Offline JTMeissner

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2015, 01:02:55 PM »
Days 4-? were frustrating.

BIG MISTAKE #2: Bondo is a polyester epoxy and West Systems is something else.  The Bondo started to eat away the foam, which required then even more filler to fix.  Anywhere the West Systems epoxy was already placed, no problems, but bare foam was in trouble.  More filling and sanding, filling and sanding...


Finally shaped to put a layer of fiberglass over the top.  I hadn't fully thought through mistake #2, therefore didn't think about the polyester resin I was applying over the fiberglass...  This proceeded to eat through the rest of the foam not protected by previous layers of epoxy.


So, in a tough decision I cut out the portions of glassed foam that had been eaten away and re-filled with the Bondo filler.  Lots more sanding to smooth it out and another layer of glass over the top.

At this point you may have noticed that the hole in the trailing edge of the rudder was not accounted for...  I hadn't completely forgotten about it, but didn't think it through previously.  Using the measurements made at the beginning, I at least remembered where it was supposed to be, so I drilled a small hole all the way through, then used a large bit to make the hole in the foam/fiberglass much bigger.  I used a plastic drinking straw to mark the hole (just shy of 1/4 inch) and filled around it with Marine-Tex.  After setting, the straw was pulled out, the hole was widened to the 1/4 inch, but left an epoxy buffer to seal around it.


Glassing again:


Is it just me, or does anyone else get a kick out of this?:


Now it was time to fair out what I had left and see how it all fit back together.


The blue paint is a Rustoleum metal primer/paint.  I am waiting for some marine primer and bottom paint for the rudder, so I'm done for now.  Goal is to see about fitting the whole boat in the garage and working on projects there, though I'm way behind my nonexistent schedule...  I've got some concrete work, compression post, electric wiring, and a variety of other things I want to tackle before the spring.

Time will tell if this was worth it.  I learned plenty by making mistakes so maybe this will help someone else out.  At the end of the day I have a NACA-14 foiled rudder with PVC tops and bottoms and two layers of glass over an inordinate amount of body filler.  The shape is close to the template, though slightly thicker than anticipated due to the layers of fiberglass.  With bottom paint, I think it will look fine and we'll see how it works in a few months.

Hope this helps some others, I'm happy to make the mistakes for you.  Some could have been prevented by actually reading the labels on the sides of the products...  

-Justin
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 02:03:16 PM by JTMeissner »

Offline Bob23

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2015, 09:37:02 PM »
Great coverage, JT. I essentially did the same thing except I sheathed the foam with 1/8" okuome plywood before glassing and I used a white oak top and bottom cap. It does float...it needed a downhaul which was marginally effective but the Compac hold down bracket keeps it all the way down. Really made a difference in performance.
Bob23
(ps: Love the PBR cans!)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 09:45:35 PM by Bob23 »

Offline Tim Gardner

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 08:15:33 AM »
PBR is the antidote for the xylene vapors emanating from the plastic compounds.   Highly effective at reducing the Give A Hoot factor of breathing toxins.
"The sea is selective, slow at recognition of effort and aptitude, but fast in sinking the unfit"  - Adm Felix Riesenberg.

Offline brackish

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2015, 03:23:32 PM »
I had to let it sit for two days for a trip and fortunately when I came back it had finally set.

Well, you got lucky.  On the other hand, I did not get lucky.  Did about six fairing mixes one day to fill and fair about 40' of taped seams on the interior of my Bateau FS14 build.  The first five were fine, but for some reason the last mix which was about six feet of seams did not cure.  Same material and I thought mixed the same way, but hey, it was late in the day maybe I read the scale wrong.  At any rate after about 4 weeks I had to douse it down with acetone and scrape, dig, grind, wire brush it all out.  I also learned that you are much more apt to get contact dermatitis with partially cured epoxy than with fully cured.  So after a week to let that heal I mixed a new batch and finished that last six feet.  All is well for now on the boat build from hell.:)

Nice job on the rudder BTW

Offline tmw

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2015, 08:10:31 PM »
PBR is the antidote for the xylene vapors emanating from the plastic compounds.   Highly effective at reducing the Give A Hoot factor of breathing toxins.
I'll have to keep this in mind.

On topic, looks great. I was nervous about using foam filler for flotation reasons. Are you going to do any figaro finishing on it?

Offline JTMeissner

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2015, 09:12:54 PM »
Thanks guys, gonna be a while before I test anything out as I just wrestled the entire boat in the garage this evening (had to remove the trailer tongue to get it all to fit safely). 

So yes, the rudder will get more finishing as I get along with the boat refurb (figaro finishing?).  As an item of interest, I'll drop the rudder in a nearby pond to see about floating.  I'm betting no, the actual planned amount of foam and what is left with the added weight of the wood, vinyl, and resin doesn't seem to me to make that a factor (still heavy, but understand displacement).  But, I've been wrong a lot on this project, so i'll take a look; it'll let me know if I got the foil watertight as well.

-Justin

Offline Bob23

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2015, 10:42:39 PM »
Bet you a Guinness it floats! Mine had some hardwood frames which do not float. Aside from that, I used the same foam. Either way, one of us wins a Gunness!!!!

Offline NateD

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2015, 11:10:47 AM »
Bob23 is right, the rudder will float. But you can lean over, push it down, and tighten the bolt and it will stay down.

Nice job on the rudder though! Next one will take 1/2 the time or less.

Offline JTMeissner

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 07:56:38 PM »
Ok, so I've been working on plenty of other things and someday will get around to posting about the whole refurbishment, but I'd figure I'd close out the rudder project with how it will finally look when the boat gets put back together.  I still haven't checked about floatation (I promise I will, drinks are on the line), but here's how it finally turned out:





I did make sure the rudder cleared an underwater light I added.

Due to an actual desire to get out on the water this year, topsides painting will be saved for another time, but I am thinking of coating the bottom with some more of the same paint.  Once the new tangs show up from Hutchins, I can call the bottom finished, tow it out to the storage shed, and focus on getting the topsides interior decked out.  Adding a few other things (lights, wiring, etc.) but the goal is to be back on the water in May.

Hope this post helps someone else should undertake a similar project.

-Justin

Offline tmw

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Re: BaBaLeLe Foiled Rudder (YARP)
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 11:01:33 PM »
Looks great.