Author Topic: Furler on CP-16  (Read 2075 times)

Offline tmw

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 238
  • Karma: 7
Furler on CP-16
« on: April 17, 2016, 08:51:35 PM »
I've read quite a few posts about adding a furler to a CP-16, and got the general idea that people thought they weren't worth the trouble, especially the homemade style.  However, being able to furl a sail seems really cool, so I got an inexpensive furler and spinner, and wanted to try it out.  It's a cheap Ronstan dinghy furler from Vela Sailing and a matching swivel to go with it.

Here's a picture of the setup:


The downside is that my jib isn't connected to the forestay.  Is that really critical?  It seems to be working fine, and doesn't interfere with the setup so I should be able to go right back to a normal setup if needed.  What do you think?  Keep it or wasting my time?

Here is an image in the "furled" state:

Offline JBC

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 237
  • Karma: 11
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2016, 10:16:39 PM »
I'm tempted to say, try it a few times and if it works, it's a wrap....  Seriously, I think how it performs overall is the key.  Does the luff sag and distort sail shape in moderate winds?  Will the hanks have any negative effect on the luff since they attach to nothing?  In any case I would think that keeping the luff as taut as possible would be critical, especially upwind.  But if the rig serves your intended purpose, then you've answered your questions.

Jett

Offline ChuckD

  • 2nd Watch Helmsman
  • *****
  • Posts: 119
  • Karma: 5
  • Sailing WA's Olympic Peninsula
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 01:20:40 AM »
TMW,
Thanks for the info & links!

Please keep us posted with performance reports...
. Does it make your life easier?
. Do you notice any downsides?
. Does the fuller itself rub at all - looks like a tight fit.

Thanks again!
Chuck
s/v Walt Grace (CP16)
Sequim, WA

Offline nies

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 256
  • Karma: 2
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 06:51:39 AM »
Is there a head swivel and is this part no. RF76 for $67.96 at Vels Sailing?.......................nies

Offline tmw

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 238
  • Karma: 7
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 09:45:51 AM »
RF76 was the part number for the furler, which did not include the swivel.  I got RF78B for the swivel, although it didn't quite fit on the sail so I have a stainless steel shackle attaching the swivel to the sail.  It may be a few weeks, but I'll report the results once on the water.

Please don't take this as a recommendation from me, I'm still trying to figure a good setup.  I'd seen surprisingly little on the web about the Ronstan RF76 jib furler, good or bad.

Offline Gerry

  • 2nd Watch Helmsman
  • *****
  • Posts: 139
  • Karma: 3
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 09:48:43 AM »
I want to totally understand what your are describing.  I too have a CP16 that I store in the water all summer.  It would be nice to install a "cheap" furler. 
    1.  you purchased a Ronstan RF76 furler from Vela
    2. you purchased a Ronstan eye and fork swivel for the for the head, at the mast.
    3. you ran two lines back to the cockpit for furling
    4. you hanked your jib to a wire to furl around (How did you determine the length of the wire?)

That's it???  It works?

Gerry
WYATTC: CP-16; 1981

Offline tmw

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 238
  • Karma: 7
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 11:54:50 AM »
I want to totally understand what your are describing.  I too have a CP16 that I store in the water all summer.  It would be nice to install a "cheap" furler. 
    1.  you purchased a Ronstan RF76 furler from Vela
    2. you purchased a Ronstan eye and fork swivel for the for the head, at the mast.
    3. you ran two lines back to the cockpit for furling
    4. you hanked your jib to a wire to furl around (How did you determine the length of the wire?)

That's it???  It works?

Gerry

That's pretty close.
1.  I purchased the Ronstan RF76 furler and eye and fork swivel from Vela.
2.  I purchased 100' of 3/16" nylon rope, although I'm replacing this with 1/8" paracord (like $8 from Amazon) because the 1/8" seems to fit better in the drum.
3.  I connected the tack of the jib to the furler, and didn't hank the jib to the forestay.  I placed the swivel between the jib halyard and the jib head (which needed a shackle because the swivel barely didn't fit the grommet).
4.  I raised the jib.  Keep in mind that the furler is originally wound when the sail is raised.
5.  I ran the furler line back to the cockpit, and plan to install a cleat (testing used one of the jib sheet cleats). 

The idea is that either the port sheet, the starboard sheet, or the furler line is working, while the others are lazy.  On a starboard tack, the port jib sheet is taught while the starboard sheet and furler line are lazy.  On a port tack, the starboard jib sheet is taught, and when the jib is furled, both sheets are lazy while the furler line is working.  The sail naturally rolls itself up, without need for a wire to furl around.

Caveat, I have no experience using a furler, so this is blind leading likely more experienced sailors.  If you have guidance to make this work, I'm completely open.  We'll eventually see how well it holds in higher winds.


Offline Salty19

  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2406
  • Karma: 38
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 12:13:10 PM »
Not to be a downer, but I suspect that mounting the furler aft of the forestay will provide undesirable weather helm, reduced power/drive and the inability to point high into the wind.

With that said your new foiled rudder (assuming you faired it nicely to a NACA0012 or 14 shape) will have the opposite effect and should improve these factors.

You might want to play around with forestay mounted vs. furler mounted to "feel" the difference in how the change of sail plan impacts performance, now that you have a foiled rudder.

Experience talking....
"Island Time" 1998 Com-pac 19XL # 603

Offline NateD

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 637
  • Karma: 21
    • Plus Ultra
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 11:46:45 AM »
I see two issues. First, without the hanks on the forestay, you're going to get a lot of sag, especially as the wind picks up. I don't think it will go to windward very well.

Second, make sure you switch to the 1/8" furling line before you go out in any significant wind. When the wind is blowing strong it takes more turns of the drum to furl the sail, if you don't have enough line on the drum, your going to run out of line before the sail is fully furled. With most systems that creates a big problem, but since your luff is free floating you could always drop the halyard to bring the sail down to the deck. But better to put the small diameter line on there with enough wraps to fully furl.

Offline MaritimeElevation

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 45
  • Karma: 4
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2016, 12:07:04 AM »
I have a similar set up that I have been using for the past several years with good success and no loss of upwind performance (It's the Harken high load small boat furler). The biggest difference is that I use a purpose built jib with a seized in luff wire, no forestay, and a vectran core jib halyard. Rigging is quick as all I do is attach the jib to the halyard and drum, raise the mast with one hand and haul on the halyard with the other. This raises my jib and tensions the rig at the same time. The vectran halyard is very low stretch and stronger than the 5/32" wire rigging so no issue there. The furler drum is attached to the stem head tang (where the forestay would otherwise attach) so placement is correct. I get plenty of halyard tension so luff sag is not an issue. This system is very similar to the stock setup on an Ultimate 20 sailboat.

Not being able to reef the jib (as one can with an extrusion type headsail furler) is no issue for me for several reasons. Roller reefed jibs, even with a rope or foam luff flattener are much less efficient for upwind work even when reefed just 10-20%. The 3/4 rig on my '81 CP-16 makes the main the more important sail than the jib is on a mast head rig. For this reason I went with a triple reef main. I can very comfortable sail on 2nd reef and full 135% jib (MkI for me, sail would be about a 110% on a Mk2 or 3 due to the bowsprit J measurement) in 20 kts and in 30 kts on 3rd reef and full jib. On 2nd reef (24% up the luff) there is still a little weather helm, on 3rd reef (36% up the luff) in 30 kts there is a still a slight (perfect amount) of weather helm. I do have a foiled rudder which takes advantage of and generates lift from weather helm that requires less than 5 degrees of rudder angle to maintain a straight course (my setup when properly reefed never requires more than a degree or two of rudder angle to compensate for the weather helm. Definitely different than the photos I have seen of R. Burgress with the tiller up by his chin).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 12:09:42 AM by MaritimeElevation »
'81 CP-16 #1385

Offline carry-on

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • Karma: 6
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2016, 05:03:13 AM »
Maritime,
Very interesting. What sailcloth weight in your jib to accommodate the wide range of wind? What diameter jib sheets. I am use hank on jibs of various weights and find the sheets for the 3 ounce sail cloth are too heavy.
$UM FUN TOO

CP-16 Hull# 2886

Offline MaritimeElevation

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 45
  • Karma: 4
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 10:03:11 PM »
Maritime,
Very interesting. What sailcloth weight in your jib to accommodate the wide range of wind? What diameter jib sheets. I am use hank on jibs of various weights and find the sheets for the 3 ounce sail cloth are too heavy.

At the risk of diverting the topic of this thread, my jib is 6.4 oz dacron, built by Doyle Sails SF, and cut for the status quo Lake Tahoe afternoon winds of 20 kts (surprisingly similar to sailing in SF Bay minus the tidal current). My jib sheets are 7mm Buzzz Line. I prefer the single braid for sheets as they do not hockle like double braid (ie NE Sta-Set). I do not have any light wind (ie 3oz) sails as I rarely have need for them in my local cruising ground.

If you have a light wind 3oz sail, pair it with a lighter weight single braid sheet for better sail shape.  For the size sails we are only talking about on a CP-16, it is only about $15 worth of line for sheets so get a set to bend onto each jib.
'81 CP-16 #1385

Offline Pete H

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Karma: 6
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2016, 11:06:31 PM »
Hi Guys,

I have pretty much this exact same set up on my Legacy. It works well.

I generally sail alone and wanted to be able to furl and set the jib from the cockpit.

I normally use a jib downhaul and that is fine except in heavier weather when I am left with the jib down but untidy and flapping around, and with strong wind and largish waves, going up on deck to tidy it up is an adventure I can  do without.

Actual rigid professionally made roller reeling was too expensive for me and the DIY ones looked like too much mucking around. I felt that the rigid furlers would also complicate raising and lowering the mast. I didn't  want to make changes to the actual boat or spend too much money so I decided to use a simple roller furling set-up with the jib set flying unattached to the forestay.
As the original problem was to make jib handling easier in heavy weather I had a new smaller, heavier jib with a wire luff and no hanks made up. Apart from that the set up is the same as above. It works well and balances well with the mainsail reefed, and means that I don't have to go up on deck. And on those rare balmy sailing days, you know, five knot winds, warm sunshine on your shoulders, beer in your hand etc. then I can just use the original Genoa (lapper jib) as usual.

Cheers,

Pete H
Muggler (Compac Legacy)
Victoria
Australia
" Nothing satisfies the man who is not satisfied with a little".   Epicurus 341 BC-270BC

Offline carry-on

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • Karma: 6
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2017, 09:03:57 PM »
TMW,
What became of your experiment with the RF76 furler?
$UM FUN TOO

CP-16 Hull# 2886

Offline tmw

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 238
  • Karma: 7
Re: Furler on CP-16
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2017, 09:36:15 PM »
Thus far I have only land-sailed it, but seems to be okay.  If all goes well, it might be in the water on the 29/30, and can do a live check then.  I didn't take any new pictures, but it's roughly as described, with an extra cleat for the paracord when furled.