Author Topic: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking  (Read 1808 times)

Offline Zephyros

  • Deck Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 5
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2016, 09:40:08 AM »
If you let this thing get any more complicated you'll never get around to going sailing. Besides, the mechanical propulsion is "auxiliary".
Ron,
  You are so correct, I'm trying to overcome an occupational hazard that carries over into my personal life. I'm an engineer for aircraft systems, my job requires me to think through all the what-if scenarios and design around potential issues.

Real life experience is always better than theory, and a lot more fun.
So true, but I'm about a year out from retirement so I'm working through how I want to setup my sailboat while I have the luxury of time. Believe me, if I could I would order the boat today and retire tomorrow. I really want to get out of theory and work on my broad reach, the shifting winds at Long Beach Harbor are always a challenge to harness.
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind from California to Texas)

Offline Potcake boy

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 546
  • Karma: 15
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2016, 10:10:47 AM »
Tom,

Good luck with retirement, I hope the year passes quickly for you. One day you will look back and realize that retirement was the best career move you ever made. Work isn't so bad until it interferes with sailing. That being said, I appreciate your sharing all this process with everyone here, as most of us are short on real world experience with electric propulsion. Many years ago I understood that the US Army, in their quest for alternative energy and drive systems, determined that the most efficient drive train was in fact just that, a train with diesel/electric power. Unfortunately, there are some peripheral issues for us sailors, the biggest being weight. For a barge however, it might be just the ting.

I'm still in love with the idea of electric propulsion, maybe Musk will turn his passion to sailing. My future plans are for long term cruising/liveaboard off the grid on a boat that is somewhat more weight sensitive, and that puts electric out of the running as I see it.
Ron
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline Shawn

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 998
  • Karma: 29
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2016, 05:30:06 PM »
Tom,

I will measure it next time I am down there though it is a little hard to do. I have the install manual if that will help, PM me your email. Depending upon the diagram I am looking at it is either 12.2 or 13.3 inches from the back edge of mounting plate to the front of the cowl when it is fully tilted up. That isn't taking into consideration the tiller on the tiller steered model, just the engine itself.

Tilting in action...
IMG_4700 by Compac23

Another of the engine in action...

IMG_4707 by Compac23

That is a little over half throttle. Full throttle is with the handle horizontal. That is with the big 4 blade high thrust prop that comes on the 9.9BTX. Clearly I am a big fan of this engine, so much nicer than my old diesel inboard.:)

Shawn

Offline Zephyros

  • Deck Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 5
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2016, 06:32:17 PM »
Hi Shawn,
Thank so much for the great pics and video, PM sent.
Tom
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind from California to Texas)

Offline Zephyros

  • Deck Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 5
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2016, 08:20:03 PM »
Hello All,

So in looking around for a fixed motor mount that will hold a heavier 9.9 hp outboard I found this one from Tanner Mfg. You can see it has a slight angle to the transom mounting surface. Can anyone estimate if the angle on this is about the same angle on the Horizon so the bracket would end up level?
http://www.tannermfg.com/motorbrackets



Also, with the slight curvature of the Horizon transom does the flat mounting of the Tanner look like it would mount okay or do you really need a mount with the two separate mounting plates like on the standard Garelick mount to fit the curvature?



Thank you, Tom
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind from California to Texas)

Offline DanM

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 4
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2016, 08:04:07 AM »
Those considering a Torqeedo may find this of interest, a review written by a member at our sailing club who is an electrical engineer. This is on the Ensign website, and while the Ensign is a very different boat, the comments may be worth a read. His basic opinion of the Torqueedo is "electrically sophisticated, mechanically crude."     http://www.ensignclass.com/about-us/articles/117-product-reviews

Offline rbh1515

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 499
  • Karma: 9
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2016, 05:54:24 PM »
Dan,
Interesting to read a review on the Torqeedo.  I have had mine now for nearly two seasons.  I think the author may have been overthinking things a bit.  I keep my motor attached to the motor mount all the time with the pin in place to keep the motor in the straight forward position.  My motor is locked on.  The only thing I take on and off are the battery.  It only weighs 10#.  I would never leave the battery connected to the engine, and I would never leave it in the boat...I bring it home to charge.  I bought the carrying case to protect it during transport.  It's got a strap I can put right over my shoulder.  Also, I don't use the tiller throttle.  There is an infinitely better solution...the remote throttle.  It also has the same display on it, and you can sit it right next to you when motoring!  The manual gives directions on lubricating the connectors on a periodic basis....I do it on a regular basis.  I don't have to change oil or lube anything or clean any carbs, so the lubrication is pretty minor.  I also keep 2 spare magnets on the boat, and a spare prop, and I keep the tiller throttle on the boat as a backup.  I also have  a paddle...have never used it!  I'm also not an engineer!
Rob
2015 Horizon Day Cat, Waters End

Offline Bilge Rat

  • Foredeck Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 1
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2016, 12:47:39 AM »
Having to scramble to immediately raise the Torqeedo when you put the sail up for fear of burning out the electric motor is a frustration I share as well. I like using the the motor to keep the boat pointed into the wind when raising the sails, and sometimes like to motor sail. Plus the fact that the tiller doesn't swing up enough when tilted to clear the transom on my Sun Cat is my second biggest frustration, although I know you can swivel it 90 or 180 degrees to solve this, but this is just another bothersome step.
But there are many advantages over a gas engine as pointed out. However, I'm still not ready to give up my Tohatsu 3.5 and go solely with the Torqeedo. I carry the Torqeedo in my car as a back up to the lake in case the Tohatsu were to give me problems upon launching at the ramp.  The Torqeedo collapses nicely and I carry all the parts in a long duffle bag. I am hesitant about using a remote throttle because there are times when i need the increased steerage of a tiller on the Torqeedo in heavy winds to turn the Sun Cat - the rudder alone won't do it.  I don't have the same issue with the Tohatsu - plenty of power in heavy winds to turn the boat by rudder alone.
'09 Sun Cat, '06 Catalina 16.5, '00 Lido 14, '84 Holder 14

Offline Zephyros

  • Deck Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 5
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2016, 11:21:20 AM »
Rob,
I stopped at West Marine yesterday and looked at the Torqeedo 1003, it does look like a nice option.

Bilge Rat,
Great observations about the Torqeedo and wind, from your location I assume you are sailing the San Francisco Bay? Similar wind I expect to see in Texas.

Following the KISS principle as well, the Tohatsu 6hp Sail Pro is the next best, hard to beat option.

Ron and Charlie,

Regarding the tip on Electric Inboard, following Charlie's link I found they were a dealer for Electric Yacht.
http://electricyacht.com/product/electric-propulsion-compact-plug-n-play/
I went to the Southern California Boat Show yesterday and talked with the local Electric Yacht dealer, it looks like a viable option.

Another route for Electric Inboard I found:
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/electric-sailboat-kits-and-accessories-inboard-motor-ev.html

Now off to calculate power and hull speed, does anyone know the Prismatic Coefficient of the Horizon?  :-)
http://www.sailboat-cruising.com/prismatic-coefficient.html

Now as to "overthinking things a bit" likewise, guilty as charged, the engineer in me is always wondering, heck, call it healthy retirement brain activity, on the other hand, I really appreciate the sane advice here to keep it simple.

I did seriously look at the outboards yesterday and test drive my new tow vehicle, a 2017 Honda Ridgeline.
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind from California to Texas)

Offline deisher6

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: 22
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2016, 02:43:29 PM »
Hey Tom: Good choice on the Ridgeline.  We just have about 2000 miles on ours and really like it especially as a 1 car family.
regards charlie

Offline Bilge Rat

  • Foredeck Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 1
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2016, 03:14:53 PM »
Zephyoros,

I mostly sail on inland lakes in Northern Ca/Bay Area. Winds can be quite gusty at times on these lakes. In fact one of the lakes I sail (Lake Del Valle outside Livermore, CA) is sort of in a canyon (similar to Columbia Gorge). In the late afternoon the winds can come howling down the lake from the dam presenting some challenging sailing conditions. 

'09 Sun Cat, '06 Catalina 16.5, '00 Lido 14, '84 Holder 14

Offline cdflan

  • Foredeck Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 55
  • Karma: 5
Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2016, 11:33:15 AM »
The Thunderstruck-ev looks intriguing.  It would be a great engineering project for you.