Author Topic: Need advice on outboards  (Read 593 times)

Offline slode

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2017, 01:50:29 PM »
Kip,

Even with the non-oxy gas varnish can still accumulate and cause plugged jets and stuck floats.  Especially if you store gas over a month, Sta-Bil or other good fuel stabilizer will combat that and keep the carb clean.   And water can still accumulate if exposed to repeated heating cooling extremes and high humidity air.  Keeping the vent closed and the tank full is the best way to avoid that.  May want to try gas from another source to make sure there are no issues there.

I have a 6HP Nisan (same as Tohatsu) on my eclipse and the control arm does work partially up but not sure on clearance or operation issues on a 23.

Offline brackish

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2017, 02:58:14 PM »
I have a 6 hp sail pro four stroke.  Mine is the Nissan badge but makes no difference the exact same model as the Tohatsu and made by them.  I chose Nissan because that is the model they had on year end clearance at a discount.

It has been in service for three years.  It has been perfect for three years.  Starts on the second pull generally even if it has been sitting up for months. 

Just recently I did a haulout refit on my boat and changed the oil in the motor and gearcase, cleaned all the dirt dauber nests out of the case.  When I relaunched I started having trouble.  Starts fine but runs a few minutes, then misses and stalls.  Restarts fine, does the same thing.

During the period of time I had not had problems I never ran it dry, never disconnected the fuel line, kept the tank full of ethanol free gas with a spot of seafoam in there for good measure.  I have to say during the haul out and for three months before it was neglected so a total of about six months without a start. 

So, tomorrow, I'm going up to get it, bring it home, put a kit in the carb, dump the tank and start over, put on a new fuel line and bulb and see what happens.  I can't lay blame on any root cause right now other than to say I'm fairly certain it is a fuel related problem.

will report back later when more is known.

Offline chimerakc

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2017, 04:13:24 PM »
So to Mr Someday with the Sailpro - it is hand pull start right?   So there is room for the handle to be down straight between the motor and the transom?    Thanks

Kip

Offline AislinGirlII

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2017, 04:13:54 PM »
Brackish, I have that motor in the Tohatsu 'hat'..when I bought the boat I was told there were motor issues, and it simply wouldn't stay running  - wasn't able to cure its problem's until I kitted the carb AND blew air (actually starter fluid with the nozzle on the spray can) thru every small orifice I could find. Blew a few small green goop clots out..

Offline brackish

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2017, 05:05:55 PM »
So to Mr Someday with the Sailpro - it is hand pull start right?   So there is room for the handle to be down straight between the motor and the transom?    Thanks

Kip

Yes hand pull easy to start.  Handle?  I assume you mean the tiller handle and can it be horizontal when the motor mount is lowered for operation.  Well yes, but depends on your mount design and mounted position.  On mine the motor is low enough to be in the water on the middle mount position, and the handle can be horizontal clearing the transom by a few inches.  However if there is any chop or wave action I move the mount to the lowest position, immersing the shaft even further and the tiller is still almost horizontal but will rest on the transom deck.  In either case it is easy to operate.


Offline moonlight

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2017, 11:59:42 PM »
I routinely advise customers of these small outboards to have a spare carburetor; usually <$150 from eBay.  Giving that advice actually helps my business (by referrals of larger, more feasible work) because 1) it's the truth; 2) I can't make any money cleaning small carbs for free; 3) people get mad about the cost of cleaning the small carb, and even then it can't be done well; and 4) we didn't create the problem, Washington did.

The truth is, yes, the EPA is so far up the tailpipe of these small outboards that the carburetors yes are super tight and also basically unserviceable, especially not compared to the cost of replacement and the value of a mechanic that knows what he's doing.  It's not a lawnmower, period.

BUT, it is a carburetor designed to idle with a fuel:air ratio right at 3 gnats arses of fuel to one pregnant mosquito of air.  And here, in hot and humid SE Louisiana (quite like hot and humid FL, but different too); we have New Orleans, and New Orleans has Bourbon Street.  And so, as the story goes, if any one of the 3 gnats is drunk, hungover, been slipped a mickey, or found religion; well then his arse is either too heavy or not heavy enough.  If the pregnant mosquito mated more than once, then she's off balance too.  Either condition is true, the fuel:air ratio is shot, and the thing will run poorly if at all.

A LOT of mechanics and mechanics shops are getting grief for it, because it is a fuel/fuel quality/other issue; but the true cause originates in DC not the production plant.

Somebody please explain how my 1994 GMC 6.5L Diesel gets 20+ mpg, but the 2010 Dodge Cummins 6.7L (with all the emissions crap so it can't blow black soot NOR breathe) gets 12mpg.  I get it, we're burning cleaner.  But we're burning 2x as much decayed dinosaurs to do so...

Go electric.  Let NUKES power, or recharge, your boat.  Yep, Torqeedo is pricey.  But so is your entire boating investment.  And it's supposed to provide pleasure, not pain. 

See my other post on home made LiFePO4 batteries that allow the existing capacity of a 180# 8D truck battery to be reduced to a 88# Group 27, with more energy...

Offline Finbar Beagle

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 06:50:46 AM »
Liking my Torqeedo more and more....
Brian, Finbar Beagle's Dad

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Kettle Creek, Barnegat Bay, NJ

Offline brackish

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2017, 07:36:22 AM »
I routinely advise customers of these small outboards to have a spare carburetor; usually <$150 from eBay.

Exactly my plan.  You can pop one off and put one on in about ten minutes.  Carb in a sealed bag on the boat ready to go.  Take the balky one home, clean and service at your leisure, then put it in the spare bag.  Already done that with my 9.9, planning to do the same with my 6 hp sail pro.

Offline brackish

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2017, 07:01:59 PM »
Well I was starting to lose faith in my tried and true system for keeping these small four stroke outboard carbs operating properly.  No, my system, which comprises of keeping every part of the fuel system constantly wet and full of non ethanol gasoline with a little Seafoam, is just fine.  What took down my carb is a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even though I know that there are no folks here that would have such a lapse, I'll offer some advice anyway.  When you are servicing your outboard and decide to remove the half dozen dirt dauber nests attached to it by brushing, vacuuming and blowing with compressed air, first put a piece of masking tape over your air intake.  My carb was clogged with dirt dauber dust from this cleaning operation.  Ten minutes to remove, 30 minutes to take it apart and clean it, ten minutes back on and it runs like a top.

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2017, 12:50:51 AM »
Chimerakc - had a Tohatsu 6 SailPro on my trimaran for several years. It was generally reliable and had no problem starting. I always use non-ethanol after I witnessed what it does to carbs with aluminum bowls. Here in Florida I have found that many Marathon stations carry it. There is a Sunoco station at Burnt Store and 41 in south Punta Gorda which is the least expensive. Try this list for availability near you    https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=FL 

From what I have observed, the problem is that ethanol (like alcohol) absorbs moisture. Do you remember the gas antifreeze sold up North during the winter months? It absorbed the water in your gas tank and allowed it to mix with the gas instead pooling and freezing in your gas line. Well the ethanol seems to do the same and of course here in Florida we have high humidity in the summer which means a good chance of moisture in your gas. I have seen a light brown powder residue left in the bowl which I am confident was corrosion and had clogged the idle jet. I may be wrong about this, but following my intuition, I've not had any more problem. Of course your problem may be something related to the motor.

Back to the Tohatsu. The SailPro I had was 25" and had an extended tiller with the shift lever mounted near the throttle grip. What I didn't like was that it was noisy and vibrated a lot. That's a problem with most single cylinder outboards but especially true with the Tohatsu.

I haven't owned a Honda portable but have never heard any serious complaints about them. I love the Yamaha 9.9 thrust but it is heavy. It would be a shame for you to sell your Honda if there is a problem that can be corrected. If it is still in warranty try a different dealer.
Ron
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Offline brackish

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2017, 06:39:15 AM »
It would be a shame for you to sell your Honda if there is a problem that can be corrected. If it is still in warranty try a different dealer.

I agree.  Going back and reading your original post, your intermittent problems seem to be related to a sticking float valve.  Often that has nothing to do with the gunk in the fuel, it may be a float that is leaking or a valve that is not quite right for the seat.  A float valve kit should be inexpensive and is really easy to change.  Think I would make that investment before I change the motor.

I just changed the float valve in my sail pro.  Didn't need it but I had purchased it "just in case" so changed it because I had it.  It took about 45 minutes which included cleaning the whole carb.

Offline Bristol14

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2017, 09:42:16 AM »
Mudlark came with a '97 2 stroke Evinrude with shift and throttle controls in the cockpit installed by the previous owner. The controls are extremely convenient, especially when I need to motor to my mooring. The Evinrude has two cylinders and vibration is minimal. It starts with one or two pulls and I've never had carb issues.

Not sure what I'd do for a replacement as I'm pretty sure I'd have to move up yo a heavier 9.9 to continue with having remote controls. Good reason to take good care of the Evinrude!
Paul

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2017, 10:28:45 AM »
Nice thing about the two strokes is that it seems the oil in the gas mitigated those fuel problems we keep experiencing. I must admit, the several 2 cylinder two stroke outboards I've owned served me very well. Maintenance consisted of carrying a spare spark plug.
Ron
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Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline chimerakc

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2017, 01:37:48 PM »
Ok - thanks for all the additional replies.  I had a local mechanic came and he cleaned the carb. It was quite tricky to remove. I will never try that.   All we could see was a little gunk in the bottom of the bowl, but he thought the float valve had been stuck.   Its good to have now seen the guts of this carb and know whats what.  I would have paid triple what he charged for the carb to get his advice on other things. 
He prefers Seafoam in the gas even though its always non ethanol. But I had rarely been adding anything so will start.  He said dont run fuel out of the motor when done - which I hated doing anyway. That makes sense to me now - there is always some gas left and then tons of air to create havoc.  I now know how to use starter fluid and I believe as things barely start to clog or stick doing that can shake things loose and keep things running? HOpefully. I read so much both ways on starter fluid pros and cons online I had been a deer in the headlights.

 I still worry - my motor is covered but that fuel hose just bakes - should I make a cover for that?  And I will try to keep the 3 gallon gas tank even fuller than I had been. 

So my hope is restored - he was a trained Mercury mechanic way back when and is very high on Hondas.   We also figured out the manual has some errors in even more places than I had already found.

I will toss out one more thing he said - replace the marine batteries after 3 years. I can tell one of them loses power fast so I will probably do that one.   

Thanks again for all the replies and info!!



Offline Bob23

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Re: Need advice on outboards
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2017, 07:38:22 PM »
I use a product call EZ Zorb to combat Ethanol problems. A marina owner turned me onto it. I never have had a fuel issue to date. And...I always remember to shut the gas tank vent at the end of the day. Helps keep some of the moisture in the air out.
  Just my 2 cents...keep the change, mates!!