Author Topic: Video to help sell your 23 someday  (Read 187 times)

Offline chimerakc

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Video to help sell your 23 someday
« on: November 21, 2017, 08:24:57 AM »
So I am amazed how well mine moves with just the jib.   Not that much wind really.  Next upgrade for pointing better would be a foil rudder.   I did that to my 16 and it made a big difference pointing and more speed in light air.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J52Sv0SNNo

Offline Bob23

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 05:16:12 PM »
Jib is the power sail. The wood foiled rudder I made for my 23  made a world of difference and combined with tilting the blade more forward than factory, I have eliminated all weather helm. This summer, she was the fastest ever.

Offline chimerakc

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 08:20:14 PM »
Well I wish I was a carpenter. I would love to get rid of all the weather helm at higher winds.   
The forestay is as tight as it can go.  Would getting a new shorter one help?    I think I just have too much weight in the stern with two batteries, a 8 horse motor and all the gear for power tilt.    I have tried adding weights up in the anchor locker, didnt seem to help.

And this is with the original main sail - which at least looks like its holding its shape - but I figure a new one would just add to weather helm? 

Thanks

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 11:15:19 PM »
Actually a new main would probably ease most of your weather helm and help keep the boat flatter. A tired sail has bad behavior, like not permitting de-powering when needed inducing too much heel which is one cause of weather helm and reduces your speed and increases your leeway. A fresh loose footed main and some sort of traveler arrangement will do wonders for your boat, the easiest way to get some control of your sail shape. Good sail shape not only makes your boat faster, but more enjoyable to sail as well. The foil rudders are also an improvement as they retain laminar flow much better and don't stall so easily when you do experience excessive weather helm. They also turn quicker when tacking. I understand that many sail boat owners believe that burying the leeward rail is exciting and fast, but the contrary is true. The flatter the better, it's actually faster and more comfortable.

There has been a good deal of information on sail shape and trim for our boats on this forum.
Ron
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline Bob23

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 03:35:05 AM »
Chim:
 I thought my sails were fine, too until I took them to the local sailmaker who snickered saying, "These sails haven't been good in a long time". They weren't being snotty or critical, just honest. They weren't torn but not crispy either. Fast forward to the new custom made sails and she pointed higher, was faster and some of the weather helm was gone.
 The foiled rudder made a lot if difference but this past season was the first use of the altered rudder position. Basically, I cut the top of the rudder blade allowing it to tilt forward out of plumb and that along with the foiled blade, removed all the weather helm. I didn't cut much off and I have photos but am too lazy to relearn how to post 'em here.
  The new rudder blade is a wood foiled shape built around the original aluminum blade. There were photos on my "Koinonia" thread but alas, photobucket treachery has removed them! The biggest problem is tilting forward too much and resulting in a neutral helm which at best, is quite uncomfortable as the boat tends to wander and constant attention is needed to keep her going straight. At worst, it's dangerous as the boat would not longer round up when the tiller is let go.
Bob23

Offline Bristol14

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 10:38:19 AM »
Bob, I have a Hutchin's foiled rudder, but I like the idea of re-purposing the old aluminum blade by covering with wood to make a new foiled blade. How did you shape the wood-covered blade to get the proper shape?

Thx.
Paul

Offline Duckie

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2017, 01:49:30 PM »
When I first got my CP 16, I tried out sailing on just the jib and was so surprised with how well it went, that I too took a video.  I was on a broad reach in moderate winds and was going about as fast as I had all day.  I learned what a good head sail can do that day.  It was a real eye opener.

Al

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: Video to help sell your 23 someday
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2017, 08:18:27 PM »
Since the title of this thread allows some latitude of discussion and the conversation seems to be following sails and sail trim, let me express my opinion of our boats in general terms. Our boats are traditional shoal draft cruising/day sailing designs. The design criteria is focused on providing safe solid family boats that can be trailed. The keel is a key component and has been a constant in these designs. For shoal draft trailer boats you must have either a lifting keel/daggerboard, or a shallow draft fixed keel, or it becomes a problem getting the boat on and off the trailer. Hutchins has chosen the fixed keel approach (which is a primary reason for their safety), but at the cost of ability to point high like a fin keel boat. Reaching is an easy point of sail for any boat, but our boats struggle to keep up with the pack in sailing to windward. Much of that can be attributed to the short keel. So, we need to pay special attention when sailing to windward to mitigate some of the loss to leeway. First, you need to have decent sails. Next you need to be able to properly trim and shape them. Some of our boats come with travelers, which is good - very good for sail shape (twist). Having a loose footed main allows easy control of the chord depth which determines the power generated. These factors should be used to control the balance of the boat (not too heavy a helm) and to avoid excessive heel which throws the boat out of balance reducing speed and making the boat a handful. Yes, the boat will go downwind with any sail combination, but needs the performance aspect of the jib slot to sail well to windward. Whenever practical sail with both sails, shaped and reefed if necessary for a boat that is fun and fast to sail.
Ron
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water