Author Topic: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III  (Read 2389 times)

danrameys

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Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« on: November 08, 2013, 07:47:41 AM »
Has anyone had it out neck and neck with a Legacy and a Compac 16 Mk III? They are strikingly similar boats any thoughts?

Offline skip1930

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 09:04:38 AM »
Interesting. Both boats are good day sailors. I think the Com Pac 16 is more sea worthy, more 'trip' worthy, and may be a dryer boat in heavy swells. 'Me Thinks' safer.
The CP-16? No centerboard to rattle around. Or let the seas leak in. A transom. A one piece stepped mast. And a better deck to go forward on. And if out of sight of land, a better boat. Just less pieces to beak, foul, or shake loose.

The Legacy is great boat for a 'Dip-`n- Scoot' from pond to pond boat.
 
Hummm when I boarded and sat down and looked around at a Legacy during the All Sail Boat Show in Chicago, my first impression was ...

"Gee this thing has no deck!" The cabin reaches too far close to the hull's deck. But the inside is wider.
It's a 3/4 rig meaning the head sail, which is a Lapper, stops at 3/4 the way up the mast. It's not a masthead sloop.
So folding mast? [BoomTendrâ„¢ Quick Rig Sailing System]
A boom-mast stern mounted crutch.
It has the normal short draft Com Pac keel PLUS a centerboard.
The typical Com Pac two piece folding rudder. I don't remember if it's foiled or flat.  
And she has no transom, exposing the captain and crew to rolling overboard. Well not quite. Gives me the He-B-Gee-B's. 'Shark fodder' comes to mind.  
The motor mount is a formed piece of stainless steel to bolt the outboard motor on. No swivel or folding set-up. But O/B can be tilted up.
Two 6'-4" [?] births heading to a vee birth area that is not a birth but rather a storage shelve in the bow.
A chain locker is provided ahead of the vee birth shelve.
With optional filler cushions the whole birth area can be one wide bed. Where to store these?
The interior treatment is typical Com Pac with it's horizontal battens. A very nice treatment.
A place for a port-o-potty, but I believe only the shorter models. The lift-up stairs need a hook to hold them up.
I don't remember if the oval ports open, but the hatch opens wide.
Short enough and low enough to be garaged.

Com-Pac Legacy Specifications

Length Overall:  16 ft. 6 in. / 5.03 m  
Beam:  6 ft. 0 in. / 1.83 m  
Draft, board up:  16 in. / 0.41 m  
Draft, board down:  3 ft. 6 in. / 1.07 m  
Displacement:  1000 lbs. / 454 kg

~

COM-PAC 16    
Huge people holding cockpit. Keep the scuppers open.
Easy to put the stick up.
Lacks a stern stay in the rig. Really need something to hold the boom up without a sail.
Can rig a boom tent. [As on both boats.]
 
Hull Type:  Fin [shoal draft] Rig Type:  Fractional Sloop
LOA:  16.00' / 4.88m LWL:  14.00' / 4.27m
Beam:  6.00' / 1.83m Listed SA:  94 ft2 / 8.73 m2
Draft (max.)  1.50' / 0.46m Draft (min.)  
Disp.  1100 lbs./ 499 kgs. Ballast:  450 lbs. / 204 kgs.
SA/Disp.:  14.14 Bal./Disp.:  40.88% Disp./Len.:  178.96 [I'd like it if this was closer to 60%]
Designer:  Clark Mills
First Built: 1972. Number built?? I heard 8,000 but I doubt it.
  
RIG DIMENSIONS  KEY
I:  12.75' / 3.89m J:  4.50' / 1.37m
P:  16.25' / 4.95m E:  8.00' / 2.44m
PY:   EY:  
SPL:   ISP:  
SA(Fore.):  28.69 ft2 / 2.67 m2 SA(Main):  65.00 ft2 / 6.04 m2
Total(calc.)SA:   93.69 ft2 / 8.70 m2 DL ratio:  178.96
SA/Disp:  14.09  Est. Forestay Len.:  13.52' / 4.12m



skip.

" literally sailing circles around his CP16 in light air "

Good point I over looked. Look at the 'sharpness' of the Legacy hull as it enters the water. Less friction.
Yes she moves with less air but I believe she is also more tender when stepping aboard and when on a reach?
Well the CP-16 is a barge. The CP-Legacy is a racer.
Somebody run the numbers on the theoretical hull speeds.





  
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:16:47 AM by skip1930 »

Offline Mike K

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 10:43:59 AM »
Hi,

Skip did a good job with the spec comparison and the visual differences between the older CP16 and it's newer replacement, the Legacy.

As for real sailing differences, I have a 2013 Legacy and my nephew has a 1985ish CP16.  We only sailed together one time in the NJ Barnegat Bay, and in my Legacy, I was literally sailing circles around his CP16 in light air.  Now, this might not be a fair comparison, as I have new sails, and his sails were all sacked out.  However, I know that the Legacy was designed to sail better to windward, which was a complaint for some CP16 owners.  The legacy is about 100 Lb lighter than the CP16. and as Skip mentioned, it does have a non-weighted centerboard to point higher into the wind.  I definitely could point higher than my nephew's CP16, but again, his sails are shot.  Keep in mind that both the aluminum centerboard and rudder are just flat blades and not NACA foils, so these boats are a compromise to meet a low price point.  But they are both definitely great "microcruiser" type daysailors for the price.


By the way, the Legacy does have a small transom, although it is about "1/2 height".  The bigger Eclipse has zero transom, and on that boat, I would be concerned about items rolling out the back on the Eclipse.  It's not a problem losing anything out the back in my Legacy.  This summer, I was in some 3 ft high following seas on an open section of the Chesapeake, and I never had water come over the stern, but they weren't breaking waves.  I wouldn't want to be out in either boat in a big storm, but other than getting wet, I wouldn't worry about the shortie transom, as the cockpit is self bailing, and with the lightness of the boat, it floats up with the waves well.    

We had both boats in a narrow, shallow channel with massive, fast powerboats creating huge wakes from all directions, and neither boat got water in it.  We were rocking and rolling greater than 50 degrees over, falling off the side of waves and aside from being scared sh*tless, we were both high and dry.  Well, maybe there was a little wetness in my shorts, but it didn't come over the coamings or transom!

Other differences?  Of course the Legacy will generally be newer and more expensive than the CP16, since the Legacy design replaced the discontinued CP16.  If you don't like fixing/replacing old things, then a newer boat (or a brand new boat and trailer) is probably less work than an old boat.  But if you can't scrape the money together, a CP16 is a fine boat.  Both are great choices for a microcruiser trailer sailor.

Mike, 2013 Legacy "Santosha"
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 10:45:59 AM by keougmi »
Mike.  '13 Legacy "Santosha".

Offline Bob23

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 07:33:49 PM »
Mike:
   Are you referring to the attempted sail to the Barnegat Bay Bash 2013?
Bob23

Offline Mike K

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 10:50:14 PM »
Hi Bob,
Yes, I was referring to the ill-fated (for us)  Barnegat Bay Bash where I didn't quite make it all the way to Tices shoal.  Maybe next year!   ::)
Mike.  '13 Legacy "Santosha".

Offline Bob23

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 05:27:03 AM »
   We heard tales of sea monsters, pirates and mutinty. Glad to hear it was just bad sailing conditions. Yes, small boats can get  bounced around in the waves and wakes produced by some of the larger stinkpots.
   With a few of us sittting aboard Allen's Eclipse with the open transom, we had a bit of water entering the boat via the open transom. I could see in colder weather that being a problem.
   Looking forward to you attending BBB 2014! And thanks for the comparision...while I never lost any sleep about it, I always wondered how the 2 boats sailed against each other. I wonder if the Legacy is closer to the rare centerboard 16? I considered buying one this summer to serve as a trailer-sailor for my fleet. TheAdmiral nixed the deal!
Bob23

Offline Unclemike

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 08:30:45 PM »
Not yet, but on the next sea trial, anyone in view of our Legacy will be a contender.
Uncle Mike

Offline john day

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Re: Legacy VS cmpac 16 MK III / SCA compairson-Mar/Apr'14
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2014, 09:44:07 PM »
Small Craft Adviser had a compairson of the monty 15,potter15,and the com pac 16 mark 11.  I was hoping for a mark111,or the legacy.  I am not sure when the mk111 went into production, however my legacy was built seven years ago, and the mk111  years before'07.  The compairson was well done I thought,still  no mention was made of centerboard upgrades starting well over 10 years ago with the mk111 or legacy.
 
 I do not think my buddy Chez and his monty 15 will have any trouble finding out he has the faster boat..... however he will have to pay attention . The larger sail I have been

 thinking about is moving up on the priority list for the legacy, interesting....

john /sv iota

Offline john day

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Re: Legacy VS compac 16 MK III
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 10:23:00 PM »

In my last post--- I wondered why SCA did not mention the  centerboard mk111 16 in their test.  I did not know  the mk111 production start was jn 1988, &  the legacy jn 2006.

The original 16 did well, however has been improved over the last 25 years,resulting in the mk11, mk111, and legacy.

John Dat  s/v iota