Author Topic: LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?  (Read 766 times)

Offline solarfry

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LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?
« on: November 04, 2016, 03:30:34 PM »
What is the true Lenght on deck of the Compac Legacy?

It seems pretty short compared to older 16 footers. Now they include the bow pulpit and the rudder in the lenght of sailboats and it's hard to tell if it is a 17' or really a 14' with bowsprit and rudder added to the LOD.  LOA means nothing.  Some 30 foot boats are really only 25' LOD.

inquiring mind would like to know..

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2016, 09:44:03 PM »
Well, many manufacturers certainly try to enhance their specifications by questionable means, but a bow sprit and rudder are clearly not part of the deck and shouldn't be represented as such. Length at waterline is a better indication because it represents the basic boat. Modern enhancements like plumb bows and reverse  transom add waterline length to enhance performance, but may not add any interior space. Multi hulls have been very actively pursuing these and other enhancements, so the lines are becoming blurred. Some manufacturers even  measure around the the gunwale to represent length.

I believe the best way to choose a boat for yourself is to first take an honest look at what you plan to use the boat for and what other principle parties (wife, kids etc.)expect it to be. There are so many designs out there because there are so many demands. You cannot have it all in one boat, so don't be swayed by claims that this boat has broken the engineering barriers and can do it all and better than any others. Stick with the basics. If you are going to be a serious racer, buy a serious race boat. If you and family plan to spend time together enjoying the many joys of being on the water, buy a comfortable cruiser.

I have owned boats of design from many opposing aspects. The trimarans I've owned were extraordinary performers, not just in speed but every measure of performance. My current 23 PH is anything but fast or points well to weather, but she is comfortable and accommodating. Each of these boats sail very well to their design purpose. The boats on the market today that try to capture all the best in one design, are actually just trying to capture inexperienced buyers, and usually those boats don't do anything well except sit at the dock.

In short, I don't think any of those numbers are more than just a guide and not a predictor of performance or owner satisfaction. I've owned 5 Com-Pacs, the first being a 16 new in 1979, in which I cut my teeth on Chesapeake Bay. That boat taught me a lot and never failed me. Every Com-Pac I've owned has been faithful to it's design purpose, so I have been happy with them all. Look at boats like Com-Pacs that stick to proven design and shy away from boats that try to represent a 30 foot boat that's trailable in 25 feet of length, the numbers just don't add up.

If you have the time and patience you can find much written material on naval design which will open your eyes to many mysteries of boat design.

P.S - had a very nice sail on Charlotte Harbor today. Nice to see you out there Vecktor Director Ryan, and a hello to whom ever was sailing that Horizon Cat with the Black hull. We kinda had an unofficial Com-Pac rendezvous. And a big thanks to the inventor of sailboats.
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline Vectordirector

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Re: LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2016, 11:33:24 AM »
Hi Ron,

Good to see you out there yesterday, The 23PH is hard to miss and I knew it had to be you.  The Horizon Cat is owned by Bob Tudor.  I think it is actually blue.  He and I had a nice sail on it on Wednesday.  Yesterday was fun, glad to see more boats out.

As far as boat "length" advertising lies, and they all do it, no one is regulating them so they can say what they want.  Many are heavier than they say too.  Caveat Emptor!   

I did a lot of homework, visited a few boat shows and spent over a year finding a boat that worked for what I was going to be doing (easy day sailing, stable for the wife, low maintenance, etc).  The Eclipse was the (so far) best choice for me and I am very happy with her size, performance, ease of sailing and quality construction. 

Everyone has different priorities in what they want to do with their boat and this will change as one goes through life, ages, has a family, retires, and learns more about sailing.   This is the reason many older sailors have owned 6-8 very different boats.   

Not sure who said it but "Life is what happens when we are busy making plans"  or something like that. 

Sail on everyone, fair winds,

Bryan aka

2005 Eclipse #23

Offline philb Junkie19

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Re: LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2016, 12:44:42 PM »
Ron and Ryan, excellent advice. Finding the right boat calls for honest self assessment and accepting trade offs. The desire to go sailing lends itself to dreaming.  This is wonderful and leads to adventures large and small but knowing what you really want and truly enjoy is so important.  When folks buy a boat that doesn't really suit their needs they either persevere and make due to be on the water and to sail, or much more often the boat sets unused on a moorings slip or and trailer.  Experience helps but not always.  After helping a family sail their boat from the British Virgin I. back to Maine I sold my 23 foot boat that I sailed from a slip on a lake several miles from home for a a 27 foot Albin Vega, a design that has made many ocean crossings and that I kept moored an hour and a half from home.  While I loved that boat and had some great times I went from sailing several evenings or days a week to sailing much less over the short Maine sailing seasons.  More recently my Compac 16 back at the lake brought many fine days and nights on the water. Now that I live just a short walk to a fine harbor on the coast, my CP 19, as I have it configured, is just right for the sailing I do as I get older and a bit less spry.

Offline kahp ho

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Re: LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2016, 03:17:45 PM »
Here's a quote from the SCA Magazine review of the Legacy...

"She's six inches longer than the old 16, but the increased length is a result of the standard stainless bow roller. Otherwise the new and old 16s share nearly identical dimensions. At 1,000 pounds displacement, Legacy is 100 pounds lighter than her predecessor, but both boats have a six-foot beam and nearly the same draft—board up (Legacy 16", CP16 14"). The Legacy has a more plumb bow, a shorter and wider keel and a different transom, but the offsets for the middle of the hulls are essentially the same."

Appears that the 16 and the Legacy are "nearly" the same length.
'07 Legacy "Amphibian"

Offline philb Junkie19

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Re: LOA LOD LWL what's it mean in reality once marketing takes over?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 11:19:10 AM »
This is probably old news to legacy owners but I happened across a youtube video by Com-pac showing some stages of a legacy being built. It also shows rigging and launching the boat.  I found it interesting to watch and figured I'd share the link.