Author Topic: Foil Rudder  (Read 461 times)

Offline Neil D

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Foil Rudder
« on: January 03, 2018, 04:10:40 PM »
Greetings Legacy sailors and Happy New Year!

Have any of you replaced your stock flat aluminum rudder with an aftermarket foil rudder, such as the HDPE blade from Ruddercraft?

https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=181_29&product_id=50?

On their site, only the CP 16 is listed, not the Legacy. I emailed the company and they said it was the same rudder replacement. Then I reached out to Hutchins and found that the CP 16 rudder is 12" wide by 30" long, whereas our Legacy rudder is 10" wide by 30" long.   Ruddercraft stated that they have no plans for a 10" wide blade but that the 12" blade would work just fine.

Any opinions about this?  Wondering why the difference in width, and if any of you think there would be any downside to hangin a 12" wide HDPE foil in place of the flat aluminum blade. 

Thanks!

-Neil


Offline Vipersdad

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 05:19:34 PM »
i have a Ruddercraft on my CP-19 II.  It makes a big difference.  It is worth the money.

V.
s/v  "MaryElla"   Com-Pac 19 / II  #436
Lake Winnebago, Lake Mendota, Lake Namakagon, Lake Superior.

"To Hutch, Gerry, Buck, and Clarkie--Who made it so much fun.".....Robert F. Burgess, Author-Handbook of Trailer Sailing 1984

Offline Wes

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 06:28:51 PM »
No opinion on the Legacy issue but I’ll second the endorsement of Ruddercraft. They offer a lifetime warranty against blade failure to the original buyer. My 19 came with a rudder from Idasailor (predecessor company to Ruddercraft). Although I wasn’t the original buyer and technically it wasn’t a Ruddercraft rudder, they gave me a deep discount for a new one when mine failed. Nice guys.

Wes
"Sophie", 1988 CP 27/2 #74
"Bella", 1988 CP 19/3 #453
Bath, North Carolina

Offline tmw

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 08:43:46 AM »
When I DIY foiled my CP16 rudder, I added a couple of inches on the front.  Works great, I wouldn't be concerned about it.

Offline deisher6

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 10:36:38 AM »
Here is a site by side shot of a Stock C-16 rudder and the C-16 IdaRudder.  It improved the performance and handling of the boat a bunch.  Had to be a bit more careful of thin water since the redder extended below the keel.  IdaRudder, new sails and a clean bottom are the best ways to increase the performance of a C-16.
regards charlie


Offline Neil D

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 12:04:28 PM »
Thanks all for the replies.  I never had any doubt about the IdaSailor/Ruddercraft HDPE foils being an upgrade; I was mainly concerned about changing the dimensions of the rudder blade to be 2"  (20%) wider than the OEM aluminum blade, and how that dimensional change may or may not specifically be an issue.

I'm contemplating the blade only. The entire kickup design looks great but not sure if the rudder in the up position would clear the stainless boom gallows overhead--which is specific to the Legacy and not present on the 16.

Offline Salty19

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 01:47:43 PM »
Neil--I doubt the assembly would hit.  I used one on my old 16 and now the 19..the assembly sticks out a little bit and does not hit the aft rail (in my case a lifeline since I've got split rails and stern seats).   It is a good 4" behind the aft rail when the rudder is raised, so unless your arch is bent back behind the rail, it should be fine.

The kickup assembly is super nice--as mentioned I've owned two of them.  It will automatically kick up and kick back down if you hit ground.  If you've ever tried to tighten the blade manually after it kicks up you'l know this is a pain in the butt to do.   

I would not worry about the rudder width at all, but I would talk to ruddercraft about where they expect the leading edge of the rudder to be located in relation to the original blade.  This is very important to dial in the right amount of weather helm---ideally there will be some, but minimal strain to keep the boat sailing straight and when the controls are released it should turn into the wind.   

My thoughts are ask ruddercraft if they are willing to take a return if you're not happy in exchange for your recommendation if the assembly does work well for you.  They would be able to add another boat to their list of supported craft.

If $$ is an issue, just the foiled blade will be a huge improvement.   Just know that you'll want to rig a down haul line to the blade so you can force it forward in the case of a grounding.  Not a big deal really, and since you have a centerboard that is your early warning system to turn away from the shoal.

You can also specify the rudder length.  I would suggest making it about the same as the draft of your keel (not the board) plus 2-3".    This should give plenty of leverage without excess drag.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:47:04 PM by Salty19 »
"Island Time" 1998 Com-pac 19XL # 603

Offline Neil D

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 10:28:23 AM »
Thanks Salty19

Just so that I am on the same page...

>>Just know that you'll want to rig a down haul line to the blade so you can force it forward in the case of a grounding

Did you mean an uphaul line to the blade (which the aluminum blade has now on the upward trailing edge) to pull the rudder backward and up for trailering, launching, and in the event of grounding?

Thanks again for taking the time to post your ideas.

-Neil

Offline Salty19

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 11:59:51 AM »
No sir, I did mean a downhaul.  The idea is to pull a cord and the rudder would be held in the most forward position before you tighten the lever to lock it in place.
If the rudder is not ALL THE WAY forward, your steering will be very lacking and weather helm will increase substantially.  The would connect to the forward upper section of the rudder. 

When I had the standard rudder on the 16 is seemed very difficult to lean way over the transom, move the rudder forward--hold it there, and tighten the lever.  A good way to lose your sunglasses, tweak your back or fall overboard.

An uphaul isn't a bad idea either, but it's less of a necessity IMO . The rudder can be left down when hauling out of the water, so you can manually raise it on the trailer once out of the water (which you should do).  For groundings, yes raising it would be a good idea but your long centerboard will be the item on your boat hitting bottom, not the rudder, so this probably wont matter too much.  For non-centerboarders--yes, the uphaul is more important.

Hope that makes sense.  If you have the coin, I would highly suggest the nice kickup/down assembly. It's pretty much the bomb--easy to raise, lower, will automatically kick back down, is built very well and the performance is outstanding.
"Island Time" 1998 Com-pac 19XL # 603

Offline Neil D

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 01:35:54 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.

I totally get the value of the kickup design. I had one--bungee-based--on my previous boat, a old '85 Montgomery 15. (I loved that boat but had to sell it before moving across country.)  But I found myself standing up in the cockpit to do various things while single handing and while lifting the tiller, popped the rudder up and lost control one too many times..once while the outboard was running and the prop took a chunk out of my mahogany blade. So, fed-up, I disassembled it and went to uphaul/downhaul with a Duckworks cl257  pop-release cleat and never looked back.

I have no doubt that the Ruddercraft gas-strut design would work much better however.  Cost would be a consideration.

Thanks again

-N

Offline deisher6

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 06:54:55 PM »
Second the idea that the RudderCraft / IdaRudder system works well.  I would also endorse the mast support system for C-16's.  The Legacy with a gallows negates the extra stuff.
Smooth Sailin'
regards charlie

Offline nies

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 07:37:44 AM »
Its like the difference between power steering and not having power steering on a car. Ida rudder worth every penny........nies

Offline Dutch

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 07:38:25 AM »
i purchased the Rudder craft assembly for my  2010 Legacy two years ago. it  really improves the handling  of the boat. great investment!

Offline Neil D

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 06:00:12 PM »
Dutch, so you got the full assembly, rudder, tiller, gas strut etc?  Not the blade only?

Thanks for weighing in.  That's good to hear.


Offline Dutch

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Re: Foil Rudder
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 07:49:10 AM »
yep. i purchased the whole assembly. i also bought a Tiller Clutch  from them. the new Tiller  has more of an arch  and  is beautiful. it  is also a few inches longer.

Dutch