Author Topic: Tips and tricks  (Read 4480 times)

Offline Craig Weis

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Tips and tricks
« on: April 10, 2005, 09:59:37 AM »
Sailors who don't know say that the Com-Pacs with that great and thick but shallow fixed keel will not point as high into the wind. 8)

Bull pocky, as the Travelocity nome would say. :roll:

Skip says sailors in centerboard boats will enviably point too high and therefore loose any tackical advantage they once wished to achieve by having to tack one more time to clear the mark... I have seen this happen way too many times when boats are racing. :lol:

skip.

bro t

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Tips and tricks
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2005, 12:01:04 AM »
Skip, I agree with you, although I haven't sailed other boats enough to compare.  But I have found that in a stiff breeze, my cp16 will actually make more headway by coming off the wind slightly, as this substantially increases the boat's speed.  Since the leeward drift has not changed, the sum vector is improved by higher velocity despite the slight change (<5 degrees) in heading.  Besides, comfort is worth a lot more than subtle performance issues to me, anyway.  Take care.  Where is Door County?  I went to Lawrence U. (Appleton) in '75/6, and my sister lived in Ladysmith for 5 years back then.  Any open water?  We are just getting openings in the lakes around springs and flows, but most places the water's still pretty hard.
bro. t. from Upwest Maine

Offline Craig Weis

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Wisconsin, door county, city of Sturgeon Bay...for bro t
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2005, 01:08:16 AM »
Where is Door County? It is the tip of the thumb when one looks at the left hand, fingers together, thumb splade out, palm away from viewer.

Now cut the thumb in half.

To the right, using the 'cut' is all of Lake Michigan.

To the left , using the 'cut' is all of Green Bay, rolling over the top of the thumb one will be back in Lake Michigan. I think that is enough open water.

And yes we have open waters if you mean no ice...ice went away this week.

Lots of frisky air that is never more than a four hour lull or calm.

Click the links below for pics opening 'skip's pics' in the Yahoo site. Or Photo Gallery Com-Pac 19 XL  at the USPS site.

wind blowen skip.

Offline Gil Weiss

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Tips and tricks
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2005, 09:42:05 AM »
I  agree with you guys too. I lake sail and many times a few boats will all sail along side one another on the same tack. I have done this with Precisions, Hunters, O'Days, etc.  In a decent breeze I have no problem keeping up with them and/or maintaining the same heading into the wind.
1983 CP 19 "Suo Gan"
(Hull #184)

jhopps

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Tips and tricks
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2005, 06:09:58 PM »
It has been my experience that my CP16 will appear to be pointing
as well as other boats near by, but my headway towards an Mark is
not as good.  Althought I am aimed at the mark, the boat is moving slightly to leward more than the other boats, thus headway to the mark is not as good as it apears.  Boats with deeper keels move toward leward
less than the CP16.

Offline Gil Weiss

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Tips and tricks
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2005, 08:24:51 AM »
You are probably right about the side slippage, but in a decent breeze it is minimal. I use the foiled rudder which helps too.

Bottom line is that we are never in a hurry to get anywhere so this doesn't  really matter much to me. What does matter to me is the comfort, stability and ease of handling our CP16. They are great little boats. A lot of boat in a small package!
1983 CP 19 "Suo Gan"
(Hull #184)

Offline Craig Weis

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Tips and tricks
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2005, 12:26:49 AM »
Hear here for the foiled rudder. It's magic.

curtis

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Tips and tricks
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2005, 11:08:22 AM »
I've also not been disappointed with upwind sailing relative to other boats that sail in the area.  Sailing conditions in  Outer Cape Cod is mostly moderate to strong breeze which puts the Compac at a slight advantage.  Some of the other comparable boats I've sailed alongside were Catalina 22 and 25 and a few O'Day in the 22-23 foot range.

In my first season with my CP23 I had the 150 genoa.  It was absolutely the wrong sail for conditions (mostly 10-20 knots with a lot of 15-20, more often 25 knots than 5 knots, except in the late evenings).  The boat heeled excesively and didn't go particularly fast due to the rudder drag necessary to keep her from heading up.  Almost anything on the water could outsail me by a good margin.

Next season I cut down the 150 to about a 110.  This was the right size sail but the sheeting point had moved too far forward in the recut.  Still an improvement.  I was slower than a lot of the boats on the water, but was sailing a lot better.  Some of the improvement may have been a bit more experience on the part of the skipper.

The following season I had a new headsail cut from North Sails.  I added a sail track forward of the existing genoa track.  This allowed North Sails to cut a sail that they claimed would give better windward performance than any they could cut for the stock genoa track.  I also got the Ida rudder the same season.  I'm not sure which of the two contributed more to the improvement but it was a very significant improvement.  I was outsailing most or all of the comparable sized boats in my home waters.  Part of that may be that those Catalinas and O'Days have old and baggy sails and it might be that if they had new and well shaped sails it would be more even.

I haven't done a lot of light air sailing alongside other boats.  I was being significantly outsailed by a catboat in light air at one point, which baffled me until I head her diesel running (motor sailing at idle, no wonder).

Most of my recent sailing alongside other boats has been in moderate air.  These days I'm outsailing the others in my home waters.  A lot of the sailors seem inexperienced.  I see a lot of mainsail only at 15-20 knots, so obviously I outsail them by a huge margin.  I also see others with too much sail at 15-20 knots that heel a lot but don't go very fast.  I've seen a few obvously baggy sails.  Its easy to outsail boats and crew like that.  There are a few Precision 16 and 19 around, but I haven't sailed alongside them.  I'd expect a Precision 23 to be faster than my CP23.  I'm sure I'd be humbled if I ever tried to race my CP23 which would have me sailing alongside experience sailors with well maintained boats and sails.

I should also mention that when the wind reaches 25 knots the other boats of this size are running for cover while I'm enjoying some good sailing.  When gusts are reported to be 30-35 knots, there are very few other boats out there.  One guy in a gaff rigged sloop with tanbark sails is the only other sailboat that doesn't seem to mind when conditions get a bit stronger.

Where I have noticed poor light air performance is in Nantucket Sound, where against a 1.5-2.5 knot current almost no progress is made to windward in light air.  I talked to the North Sails rep and his recommendation is a moderate to big genoa of light sail cloth.  For reaching and downwind an asymetric (cruising) spinaker is recommended.  Another thing that should help light air windward performance is adding a traveller (allowing a full draft in the sail when sheeted so that the boom is over the centerline) or just a line to the windward stern pulpit to bring the boom over while leaving the sail full.

In Nantucket Sound most of the other boats are in the 30 something at the very smallest to 60 something range.  The smaller cruisers are probably sailing near the Cape south shore rather than the main channel to the south a bit.  Its hard to judge windward performance of these larger boats because so many of the lazy skippers just motor to windward with only the mainsail up and sheeted down hard over the centerline (not really sailors IMHO).  Those that are sailing to windward, obviously outsail the much smaller CP23.

I'm not particularly interested in going faster than anyone else.  What I would like to be able to do is make better progress to windward so I can complete certain sails in the 6 hours that the current is in my favor and still make some progress if I get stuck with the current against me (and not end up in almost the same place 6 hours later when the current finally reverses again).  The CP23 definitely does sail quite well to windward for this size cruising vessel.

Curtis

crbakdesign

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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2005, 11:25:02 AM »
Hi Curtis,

35 knots in a 23 footer, that's moving!   We've got a small craft advisory out here in Atlanta today , so of course I'm headed out to the water with my 16.  I'm normally a lake sailor, living just a couple of miles from Alatoona, so current's not a problem, but I am planning a Georgia Coastal sail end of May where the tidal changes are fairly large, and the currents strong. Our lake has been a puddle all Winter thanks to the dam runoff, but now it's back up there.  At 59 F and windy, we should have it all to ourselves!

Clemens

roland cobine

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Re: Tips and tricks
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 12:02:36 PM »
 last summer i sailed the same course behind a cal 26 on a close tack and didnt have any problems. i think the ida rudder helped quite a bit

Offline Bob23

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Re: Tips and tricks
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 05:42:48 AM »
Well, men- I guess I'll justs have to throw my 2 cents in here. My 23 does not point quite as high as my sons Irwin Free Spirit, but in a race, there are many variables to take into account. Wind speed, current speed and direction, how much we are willing to heel, etc.

As the wind speed increases, the 23 seems to shine. In a light wind, the FreeSpirit will out point, out distance me. (To those unfamiliar with the Freespirit, she has a verticlally adjusting rudder and daggerboard thereby always staying in balance. WLL and beam are similar to the 23 although she's quite a bit lighter.  She does not have the ballast the 23 does.)
When the wind starts to blow, the ballast of the 23 takes over. The Irwin is relying on form stability to stay up while my 1350lbs. of concrete is doing the job.

I've never sailed a 16 but I understand them to be baby sisters to the 23's. Is that correct?

Bob23 on the hard and varnishing in NJ