Author Topic: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?  (Read 1619 times)

Offline oceanroadus

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: 1
rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« on: April 21, 2016, 07:22:22 PM »
Hello all and thanks for so many great tips so far.  I have seen photos of folks installing a rudder hold down bar is this for single handed sailing mainly?  If so what are the advantages or need for it?  Our boat has the factory rudder.  Another suggestion was to install a nylon shear pin to keep the rudder down while sailing so as to also allow for it to kick up if an obstruction is hit any wisdom is appreciated... 
2013 Suncat "Teala"

Offline hoddinr

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 340
  • Karma: 10
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 07:26:31 PM »
I took Nomad, my 2007 SunCat to ComPac for some work this year, and had them install the rudder rod.  It's great.  No more bending over the transom to tighten the lever on the rudder, and it locks in the "all the way down and forward" position AND the "all the way up and out of the way" position.

No need for a rudder up haul, or down haul. 

Great idea and it works flawlessly.

Ron

Offline Bob23

  • I'm a mean and selfish curmudgeon! - Bob23
  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 6017
  • Karma: 112
  • All men die; few men really live.
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 08:25:47 PM »
I also installed on my 1985 23/2 and love the way it keeps the rudder down and forward. It helps make weather helm more manageable. Mine has bent slightly due to a soft grounding or two...or three... but I plan to get a stiffener welded on by a local welding friend who specializes in stainless and aluminum.
Bob23

Offline rogerschwake

  • Helmsman
  • *****
  • Posts: 190
  • Karma: 5
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 09:18:28 PM »
Ordered my hold down rod a couple years ago and added it to my 04 Sun Cat. At a little over a $100, some what expensive but I really like it. No more hanging upside  down locking the rudder down and worrying about losing my glasses or hat. It works with a foiled rudder also. It makes a great addition to any boat in my opinion.

ROGER

Offline Tom L.

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 437
  • Karma: 7
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 09:43:24 PM »
The down rods are very handy. But for me, a back to basics and uhh cheap the $ .35 nylon bolt and nut acting as a shear pin trumps the down rod. I think it costs something like $85.00. I have never sheared the pin. But one time I ran into some mud and the pin held but it was partially cut I found out when I got back to haul out. I carry a half dozen pins...very cheap insurance.

Actually for me the best tool is a sounder to try and keep out of the muck in the first place. So far that has worked very well.

Tom L.
Present boat, Menger 19 "Wild Cat"    O'Day 25, Montego 25, Catalina 30, Tartan 37, Catalina 380, Mariner 19, Potter 19, Sun Cat

Offline Christopher

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 33
  • Karma: 2
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2016, 10:15:04 PM »
I have learned to take my hat and glasses off before locking down the rudder.  So far so good.  A great tip that I got on this forum is to insert a golf tee into the rudder and mount to keep the rudder firmly locked down.  So far it has worked great!  I have sheared a couple of tees but hey I have a bunch anyway.
  Roger are you going to make it to the CLR this summer?  I hope to see you there.

Second Wind

Chris

Offline Bob23

  • I'm a mean and selfish curmudgeon! - Bob23
  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 6017
  • Karma: 112
  • All men die; few men really live.
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 05:12:25 AM »
  The sounder is a great idea and I'd have to say that aside from the compass, it's the most used instrument on the boat.  The bracket is used to keep the rudder fully down when sailing. As a wood foiled rudder blade filled with foam, it likes to float back and up. When I do get into shallower water, I can release the bracket and allow the downhaul to keep the blade from popping all the way up. I wouldn't sail like this- with the blade canted back, the weather helm is multiplied. But when approaching an anchorage, I can keep the rudder draft the same as the keel. I like to anchor in about 3 feet of water when I can.
  But the nylon pins work great too...and el cheapo is always nice!!!
Bob23

Offline brackish

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2107
  • Karma: 53
  • Arion
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 04:32:29 PM »
The hold down handle did not work very well on my 23.  I had constant problems keeping the rudder down.  Just normal sailing, not hitting anything, would cause it to pop up or slide off laterally.  I was about to add a shear pin but studied the problem and then did this.  Has been perfect ever since, will pop up if you hit something but will not come up by normal sailing.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=7267.0

Offline Bob23

  • I'm a mean and selfish curmudgeon! - Bob23
  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 6017
  • Karma: 112
  • All men die; few men really live.
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 05:26:21 PM »
Brack:
   I realized that the lateral slide off problem was an issue. I had a stainless steel "loop" made with 2 holes which wraps around the bracket and prevents the slide off. To release it, I simply uncleat a small line used to hold it forward, slide it back and it releases. The loop also holds the bracket in place when not in use, preventing it from falling off backward or sideways.
Bob23
I'll see if I have pics.

Offline BruceW

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 11
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2016, 02:17:06 PM »
I use the delrin pins I got from Ruddercraft. I couldn't see putzing with fixing the hold down rod when they act up like Brack's & Bob's did.  I do tie a small line through the hole in one end, and that helps me not drop it into the drink.
Bruce Woods
Raleigh: WR 17
New Bern: CP 23

Offline patfurr

  • Deck Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: 2
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2016, 09:17:27 AM »
I find that a threaded nylon pin with a wing-nut works great.  I got a little off line heading out the channel the other day and dragged the rudder along the sandy bottom and it held just fine.  It's a little bit of a reach to install and remove it, but that's all at the dock and very calm water. 

Offline oceanroadus

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: 1
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 08:42:26 PM »
Thanks all, I went with the threaded nylon bolt and wing nut and it is working great.  I found an Ace hardware that had a variety of them. Home depot and Lowes didn't stock anymore in my area... 
2013 Suncat "Teala"

Offline Tom L.

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 437
  • Karma: 7
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 10:07:59 PM »
That's great. The Nylon bolt is very cost effective.

One other thing. Instead of a wing nut I simply screw on a nylock s.s. bolt just finger tite. It won't come undone but you can still take it off very easily. I started with a wing nut but it kept coming undone and they don't float. Who new.

Tom L.
Present boat, Menger 19 "Wild Cat"    O'Day 25, Montego 25, Catalina 30, Tartan 37, Catalina 380, Mariner 19, Potter 19, Sun Cat

Offline BruceW

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 11
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2016, 08:27:16 AM »
I'm not at my boat to check; what size bolts did you get at the Ace? I think they look like 1/4 x 3 or so.
Bruce Woods
Raleigh: WR 17
New Bern: CP 23

Offline Tom L.

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 437
  • Karma: 7
Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2016, 08:56:05 AM »
It was a 1/4"-20 nylon bolt. I think it was 3" long because that was the longest they have. It was good fit.

Tom L.
Present boat, Menger 19 "Wild Cat"    O'Day 25, Montego 25, Catalina 30, Tartan 37, Catalina 380, Mariner 19, Potter 19, Sun Cat