Author Topic: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?  (Read 2314 times)

Offline BruceW

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2016, 08:58:32 AM »
Cool; thanks! I have liked the delrins from Ruddercraft, but also like the ease of just picking up the bolts if I can get them at ACE.
Bruce Woods
Raleigh: WR 17
New Bern: CP 23

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2016, 09:20:30 AM »
Having owned a few Com-Pacs, I have struggled with the same nuisance. In my opinion, Brackish has the best solution. I tried the pin thing but once had the boat sailed into soft mud which placed too much tension on the pin to remove it, so the rudder couldn't be raised to free it from the mud. I would say yes to the raising bar for reasons of convenience, but would also recommend the bungee part of the Brackish solution at a minimum. My current boat, a 23 has the raising bar and I love the convenience of not having to lean over the transom to raise or lower. The hold down tab does tend to slip off the the standard design so a solution such as offered up by Brackish is good to have.
Ron
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline Bilge Rat

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2016, 02:31:16 PM »
No offense folks, but what's the problem with leaning over and simply tightening the bracket handle. I find this adequately keeps the rudder in the down position. I make sure not to over tighten because I do want it to kick up if I grounded. 
'09 Sun Cat, '06 Catalina 16.5, '00 Lido 14, '84 Holder 14

Offline hoddinr

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2016, 07:24:51 PM »
Bilge,

 The problem for me, being of slight build, was that I was almost overboard before I could get the handle tightened.  Put a hurtin' on my ribs and felt really insecure.  When you run into shoal water the last thing you want to do is put yourself in a position where you are upside down and not looking where the bow is pointed.

Maybe it was easier for tall people with long arms?

Ron

Offline Bilge Rat

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2016, 11:16:43 PM »
I guess I am somewhat fortunate in that I am of the taller variety and arms as such may be long enough for this not to be an issue. So, to avoid leaning over the transom while in the water, I assume you stick the nylon bolt in with the rudder in the down position before backing the boat into the water?  I have always been in the habit of locking my rudder up in the up position while backing down to prevent grounding on the ramp, but maybe the there is enough clearance that you can back down the ramp into the water with the rudder locked down?
'09 Sun Cat, '06 Catalina 16.5, '00 Lido 14, '84 Holder 14

Offline BruceW

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2016, 08:08:37 AM »
Backing down ramp, I have sometimes had an issue. The best deal was on a Precision 21, where there was a BIG rudder, and I could bring it down with a pull rope, cleat it off. No bending over. I have wondered if I could rig that up on my Com-pac 23.

With me, I bend over the transom, put the delrin pin in, and then back up. I don't like the ruddercraft rudder to be horizontal, because I don't want to accidentally get it with the prop, which I have done, back in the day with my Suncat. I stopped that by putting one of those stainless steel things on that help you get more thrust. I can't think of the name of it, but it functions also as a barrier for the prop.
Bruce Woods
Raleigh: WR 17
New Bern: CP 23

Offline hoddinr

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2016, 09:19:42 PM »
No Bilge,

I don't subscribe to the nylon bolt method.  I had ComPac retrofit their factory stainless steel rod for raising and lowering the rudder from inside the cockpit.  Works great.  Stays down unless an obstruction is encountered, and easily pushes back to full lowered position when in deep enough water.

Got rid of lines for lowering or raising the rudder.  Brilliant.

Ron

Offline DanM

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2016, 07:17:12 AM »
Sorry, I posted this query to the wrong thread yesterday. It belongs here.
I've been interested to read references to a hold-down bar on a SunCat with a Ruddercraft foiled rudder. My SunCat came with one of these rudders and I was considering a hold-down bar for two functions:
 - I have never been able to raise the rudder fully by pulling the up haul line that's mounted on the tiller. I know there is a little dance that is recommended, but it doesn't work for me on this boat.  I always have to make an awkward reach back to pull the rudder up the last of the way by hand.
  -Also, it gets pretty weedy on some parts of our lake and in the mooring field, so the rudder often kicks up or gets stuck or has to be cleared of lake salad, so it has to get pushed back down now and then. The gas cylinder seems to do a good job of pushing the rudder gently down in clear water, but sometimes, especially when it's a little weedy, I need to push it down the last few inches by hand, which is even more awkward than pulling it up.
  I could maybe solve the first problem with an extra uphaul line, but since, as they say, you can't push a rope, it doesn't help with the second issue.
   So does Gerry sell a hold-down bar that  can be added to the  rudder, and would that work for this situation? Are there any images around showing that hold down bar in this application?
   Thanks in advance for any advice. Dan
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Offline hoddinr

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2016, 10:17:55 AM »
Yes, Dan.  They have the stainless rudder rod for your application.  It works great, and is only $125 plus shipping.  I went to the factory and they installed and adjusted it for my aluminum rudder for no additional cost.   They have one (might be the same one) for the rudder craft rudder blade.

Ron

Offline cruz-in

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2016, 12:33:10 PM »
Hi Ron,

Do I understand your post correct, ComPac has a Rudder Hold Down Bar for the Ruddercraft rudder? Like this one:

https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=29&product_id=135

Thanks
Dan

Offline cruz-in

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2016, 07:16:56 AM »
Hi Ron,

Do I understand your post correct, ComPac has a Rudder Hold Down Bar for the Ruddercraft rudder? Like this one:

https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=29&product_id=135

Thanks
Dan

Chatted with ComPac, they said in all likelihood their hold down bar will not work with the foil rudder.

Offline rogerschwake

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2016, 11:58:30 AM »
  I have a Ruddercraft rudder and Com-Pac hold down rod on my Suncat. To get the hold down rod to work with the foiled rudder you trim a little of the plastic away where the clevis mounts to the rudder, there is 3/8" aluminum under the plastic similar to the stock rudder to drill a hole and attach. This attachment point is above the water so it won't interfear with the rudders operation. I'm going on my second year with the hold down rod and think it is a great addition.

ROGER

Offline cruz-in

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Re: rudder hold down bar or nylon shear pin?
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2016, 07:38:27 AM »
Thanks Roger,

I believe I am missing some thing. When I look at installing the hold down bracket to the Ruddercraft rudder, I see your point about removing some of the white plastic to allow the bracket to pivot as you raise and lower the rudder.

However, due to the cut of the aluminum on the ruddercraft, the hold down bar is virtually straight up and down when the rudder is down. When I fit bar to my compac plate rudder (I still have it), the bar runs more at an angle. The reason I mention this is, I see how the bar will allow the compact plate rudder to kick up when the rudder strikes an object. However, with the vertical install on the ruddercraft rudder, I do not see how the hold down bar will release and allow the rudder to rise in the event of striking an object or grounding.

Also, How do you keep your ruddercraft rudder up when using the hold down bar? Do you still have to lean over the back and tighten the rudder nut to keep it in the up position?

Thanks tons for the response and sorry for all the questions.

Dan