Author Topic: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking  (Read 2127 times)

Offline Zephyros

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HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« on: September 05, 2016, 05:51:19 PM »
Hello All,

First post here but I have been reading many posts for sometime. I want thank everyone for the great and helpful community you have built. I want to especially thank Rob (rbh1515) and Charlie (cdflan) for all the help they have given me by email with questions about their Torqeedo setups and the boats in general.

I'm considering buying a new Horizon Day Cat, I decided against the diesel option as the HDC requires a 9" high engine cover in the middle of the cockpit and I would rather keep the cockpit floor free to move about. Here are the engine choices I have considered:

Torqeedo 1003 Outboard (what Rob (rbh1515) has)
I have discounted this somewhat as I'll be on inland lakes six plus miles long and need to be able to make a beeline for the marina if a Midwest storm comes up, but with a spare battery it may be worth considering.

Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 Pod (similar to Charlie's (cdflan) Cruise 4.0 conversion)
Seems like a nice, albeit an expensive option.

Other outboards (improved single handed docking?):
Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 outboard (no ethanol gunk, no gas fumes, silent running)
Suzuki 9.9 HP DF9.9BTL Outboard (EFI to reduce ethanol gunk problems, but heavy)
Tohatsu 6hp Sail Pro outboard (lighter, but ethanol gunk problems?)
Lehr 5hp/9.9hp Propane outboard (no gas issues but positive comments on Lehr are hard to find?)

So my question is if you were starting from scratch which engine choice would you pick and why?

Also, how are the HC / HDC for Single Handed docking, would the extra push you get from being able to turn the outboard be an advantage?

Tom
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 08:33:10 PM by Zephyros »
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)

Offline rbh1515

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2016, 06:19:35 PM »
Tom,
I think I had mentioned that my Torqeedo is locked forward since I use the remote throttle.  My slip is really easy to get into....no tight turn needed.  But once I visited a friend at his slip....tried to pull into the empty slip next to him.  It was a tight turn and the wind was wrong and I did not have enough steerage.  I would have needed to be able to turn the outboard.
Rob
2015 Horizon Day Cat, Waters End

Offline Zephyros

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2016, 08:27:28 PM »
It was a tight turn and the wind was wrong and I did not have enough steerage.  I would have needed to be able to turn the outboard.

Rob,
That is great feedback, thank you. I wondered on the Torqeedo outboards if you can turn them when using the remote throttle, sounds like no. I was wondering with the Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 outboard if you can buy the tiller model and still use the remote. The manual shows the connection is possible when using their 26-104 Lithium battery, but I'll have to call them to see if the that combination is allowed.
Tom
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 08:31:45 PM by Zephyros »
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)

Offline Rahn

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2016, 09:23:09 PM »
I had a Horizon Cat that was powered with an 8hp Yamaha high thrust motor. I also had a Suncat that I re-powered with the Tohatsu Sail Pro which would be plenty of motor for the Horizon Cat. As for ethanol, I found non-ethanol gas readily available and always treated my gas with Seafoam and have had no issues.

Offline Tom L.

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2016, 10:02:50 PM »
I would chose the 6hp Tohatsu sail pro. For me cost and flexibility would be the driving factor. The gas engine gives you the range you may need with out the potential of running out of power. However your lake sounds relatively small so maybe that isn't an issue.
Regarding the gunking up as you mentioned. I have had a Nissan 5hp 4 stroke on a Sun Cat. At first I had that issue then a very wise mechanic told me to avoid gas with ethanol. I did that and my problems completely vanished and reliability is very very good. Non ethanol gas is available nearly everywhere. The 4 stroke engines sip gas. That's the problem because the tank doesn't turn over very fast plus the alcohol that resides in the carburetor bowl also goes bad. If I don't plan on using the motor much I only put 2 gallons in the tank. I dump it into the car every six months and refill.
Ethanol free gas stations can be found by using this web site.  puregas.org

Good Luck

Tom L.
Present boat, Menger 19 "Wild Cat"    O'Day 25, Montego 25, Catalina 30, Tartan 37, Catalina 380, Mariner 19, Potter 19, Sun Cat

Offline Tom L.

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2016, 10:07:16 PM »
oops...   site is  pure-gas.org  don't forget the dash

Tom L.
Present boat, Menger 19 "Wild Cat"    O'Day 25, Montego 25, Catalina 30, Tartan 37, Catalina 380, Mariner 19, Potter 19, Sun Cat

Offline Potcake boy

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2016, 10:16:26 PM »
Tom,

Have you looked into inboard electric? Motor likely to be small enough to not require any of the cockpit space and I'm sure the HC can accommodate enough battery power for lake sailing. It would probably connect right to the driveshaft used for the diesel motor.  Sure would be nice to glide silently along even when there is no wind. I remember people used to make electric motor conversions to outboard motors for use in water reservoirs. They weren't very expensive and worked adequately.

As far as docking, it would be the same as an inboard. You would use bursts of throttle with the wheel (tiller) over for sharp turns, and use prop walk in reverse if the drive shaft is on an angle. Otherwise, you would need enough speed astern for steerage.
Ron
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline Zephyros

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 10:08:50 AM »
Hi Rahn and Tom L.,
Thank you for the recommendation of the Tohatsu Sail Pro and the Ethanol free gas. I found a station about 45 minutes away using the pure-gas.org website. I've read a lot of good reviews on Seaform, thanks for that suggestion as well.
Tom

Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)

Offline cdflan

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2016, 11:04:27 AM »
Potcake adds an interesting alternative with internal drive through the conventional shaft/prop.  Looked at both Mastervolt and Elco during my project but both were much more expensive.  There is a local "packager" in St. Petersburg with what appears to be an attractive performance/price deal - https://www.electricmarina.com/electric-motors.html.  They claim to have between 5 and 6 hundred installations and the price includes charger.  The Quietorque 5 lists for $4600 and would be more than enough to drive the HC (mine is a 4.0 kw unit).

Offline Zephyros

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2016, 03:47:15 PM »
Sure would be nice to glide silently along even when there is no wind.

Hi Ron,

I absolutely have heard that siren song, it would be nice. I have looked at doing an inboard electric as well, Com-Pac has the Elco 6hp inboard motor setup on their Launch model, the same hull and deck as the HDC. It still would require a small floor hatch but the price quoted is north of the diesel option price, here is a photo of the Launch setup:




The Torqeedo Pod seems like a nice solution, but I'm a little concerned how the long term quality and reliability will be. Also, single handed docking may be more challenging having to rely on speed astern for steerage with the Pod.

Tom
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)

Offline Zephyros

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2016, 03:48:34 PM »
Potcake adds an interesting alternative with internal drive through the conventional shaft/prop.  Looked at both Mastervolt and Elco during my project but both were much more expensive.  There is a local "packager" in St. Petersburg with what appears to be an attractive performance/price deal - https://www.electricmarina.com/electric-motors.html.

Hi Charlie,

Besides the Elco I mentioned above, sounds similar to what you looked at, I've also looked at the Mastervolt 2.6, but your right, the price jumps to go to the larger model to get the power you need. Thanks for the link to electricmarina.com, it looks interesting, I'll review it in detail.

Tom
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)

Offline cdflan

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2016, 04:26:37 PM »
All of the options except an outboard that can conveniently be pivoted depend on speed astern for steering.  Haven't had any problems with my arrangement.

Offline Zephyros

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2016, 05:05:58 PM »
All of the options except an outboard that can conveniently be pivoted depend on speed astern for steering.  Haven't had any problems with my arrangement.

Charlie,
  Is that single handed? I wonder if your more powerful Cruise 4.0 helps?
Tom
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)

Offline blighhigh

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2016, 06:12:28 PM »
One solution for a gas powered outboard would be to disconnect the fuel hose when you are back in your slip.  Let the motor finish off the remaining fuel in the carb. and voila there is no gunk to worry about.  I repowered my HC using a Tohatsu 8 hp engine.  Lets of power and very efficient.  Down side with large engines is that the weight may be too much for the outboard bracket so check before you buy.

Offline Zephyros

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Re: HC/HDC Engine Choices and Single Handed Docking
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2016, 08:35:13 PM »
I repowered my HC using a Tohatsu 8 hp engine.  Lets of power and very efficient.

Hi blighhigh,
Thanks for the gas tip. Can you tell me why you went to the heavier Tohatsu 8 hp engine instead of the Tohatsu 6 hp Sail Pro with it's high thrust prop?
Tom
Tom, aka, Zephyros (sailing the west wind in North Texas)