Author Topic: Prior owner changed rigging  (Read 958 times)

Offline Wayne J

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
Prior owner changed rigging
« on: November 10, 2016, 02:09:52 PM »
Prior owner modified mast rigging by changing shrouds and removed backstay to accommodate a boom gallows.  The mast does not step at the deck, but is stepped a foot or so above the deck.  Also, no spreader.

I am hopeful that she will still have all the sailing character of a stock rigging

Wayne J
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 04:10:34 PM by Wayne J »
CP-19/3 Richmond VA

Offline Craig Weis

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2037
  • Karma: 17
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 04:15:22 PM »
" removed backstay " on a CP-19 and install a boom gallows? Whoa ... let me say this about that.
The guy before you screwed up.

TG, I don't think Skip noticed that the spreaders were removed ... and the outer shrouds were moved aft of the inner stays ... caught me. Your right Tim. I didn't notice ... watching 'The Five' on Fox.

Sounds like a terrible idea to me.
 
That puts all the lift [drive/pull] from the mast and two sails onto the four side shrouds that really are used to pull the port or starboard 'kink' out of the mast.
 
Try this; lay on the vee birth and sight up the mast through the hatch. A few turns on any side turnbuckle will bend the mast.

Side stays thankfully are tacked to the chainplates located behind the centerline of the mast. And that's ALL that is preventing the mast from flopping over the bow. Think about it.

Furthermore this modification begs the question why did the Naval Architect design the CP-19 as a masthead sloop with a standing back stay?

Want to hold the boom up without the aid of a main sail?
Hang the boom from a cable with a quick disconnect that is U-clamped to the back stay.

The CP-19's with a bow sprit and a dolphin stay uses the back stay to tension the dolphin under the bow sprit 

In the foto do you see the short cable preventing the boom from booming me in the head? [that's the frau's job'] that's what I'm writing about.

Note the big wind on just the 155% head-sail lapper.
 
About where this foto was taken and with this set-up me and my sister-in-law put the rail under and flushed out the cockpit with seas draining through the scuppers. It's about 40 foot depth here.  Click on the foto to enlarge.


Craig Weis. [/color ]

 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:46:21 AM by Craig Weis »

Offline Wayne J

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 04:34:54 PM »
Hopefully, I will be able to install a back stay this winter.  Do you have any tips about installing a back stay?

Thanks,

Wayne
CP-19/3 Richmond VA

Offline Craig Weis

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2037
  • Karma: 17
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PM »
Go stock. That's my tip.

Still have the ss cable with it's swedged-on ends?

The boom is very short so how is it to rest on the gallows?

Craig Weis
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 05:18:10 PM by Craig Weis »

Offline Salty19

  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2431
  • Karma: 38
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 04:54:25 PM »
Welcome, Wayne.

Here is a pic of the stock CP19 aft chainplate with turnbuckled backstay (between ladder and rudder mount).  I would suggest to contact Hutchins and ask to make send any parts you need, this way you know it will all fit and be of the original design.


I don't have a photo online of the mast head setup for the backstay.  If you can't find one, reply back and I'll see if I can find one on my computer somewhere to post.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 04:56:30 PM by Salty19 »
"Island Time" 1998 Com-pac 19XL # 603

Offline Tim Gardner

  • 1985 CP19/II # 323 "Andiamo!"
  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 1266
  • Karma: 46
  • NSA: This is not the 'droid you're looking for
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 04:59:41 PM »
Wayne, I don't think Skip noticed that the spreaders were removed, and the outer shrouds were moved aft of the inner stays.  This is the same standing rig design as the Eclipse except for the masthead jib and mid boom sheeting. Keith Scott is likely the fellow who made this mod.  I'd give him a call. Www.sailboatrichlands.com  is his website.

I have considered the same mod for my boat.

TG
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 05:03:32 PM by Tim Gardner »
"The sea is selective, slow at recognition of effort and aptitude, but fast in sinking the unfit"  - Adm Felix Riesenberg.

Offline NateD

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 637
  • Karma: 21
    • Plus Ultra
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 03:38:36 PM »
This is the same standing rig design as the Eclipse except for the masthead jib and mid boom sheeting.

The Com-Pac 16's are setup without a backstay, just swept back shrouds.

You said the mast is stepped a foot above the deck? Is the mast hinged too, and lays back onto the boom gallows? If so, then I think Tim Gardner is right, it was probably re-rigged by Keith Scott or the previous owner did it with guidance from Keith Scott. I wouldn't be concerned about it, in fact, it's a nice upgrade. Shouldn't affect sailing performance other than the sail rubbing on the aft shrouds when off the wind with the main up.

Offline Wayne J

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 10:04:22 AM »
Nate,
Here is a picture of the mast hinged to mast support.
Wayne
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 10:06:57 AM by Wayne J »
CP-19/3 Richmond VA

Offline rogerschwake

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 210
  • Karma: 5
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 11:26:43 AM »
  Wayne from the picture it looks like some one has put the mast hinge from a cat rigged Com-Pac on your boat. The parts list price for that hinge is $150 and I think it's a good idea. All the cat rigged boats are set up this way and it works great on my Sun Cat. The changes to the shrouds and eliminating the back stay is also just like the cats. Myself I would not change it unless it gives you some trouble or you where going to do some racing. These changes would make setting up easier if you do a lot of trailer sailing. Just my thoughts on the your rig.

ROGER

Offline Bob23

  • I'm a mean and selfish curmudgeon! - Bob23
  • Fleet Admiral
  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 6204
  • Karma: 113
  • All men die; few men really live.
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 07:28:35 PM »
  In a blatant thread theft, Wayne J, I'd like to point you to the above photo of Salty's beautiful teal colored Compac 19. Notice, if you will, how color coordinated he is with matching lifeline pads and complimentary color bottom paint. Also, the more attentive of us will observe the matching line on the mast, presumably a halyard. We here at the CPYOA are very fashion oriented and Salty is the self appointed czar of color coordination and all color schemes must be approved by him before being allowed out in pubic.
  Back to our regularly scheduled program: You have a very nice and uniquely rigged CP 19 there with the mast hinge. I wouldn't change it but rather get in touch with Keith noted by Tim Gardener below. Tim is not really a gardener but instead a pretty nice guy.
  It seems to me that your future backstay may miss the boom gallows completely.
Bob23...always glad to help.

Offline Craig Weis

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2037
  • Karma: 17
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 03:06:38 AM »
So when you hinge the mast on a CP-19 how much of the mast hangs back over the stern?
Waterline to top-O-Mast is twenty five foot plus any radio antenna.

I just off set the mast onto two two x fours U clamped onto the forward and stern pulpits.

Doing this allows easy access when going below into the cabin.

Been quite a few years since I have removed the mast from the boat ... Have not touched any turn buckles 'cept the back stay one to have enough slack forward to pull the Harken pin.

Note the 'kick stand' on the trailer's right side to keep the boat and trailer jack from tilting up when a walk astern. [you can't 'cause I can't load the foto]

>> Your file is too large. The maximum attachment size allowed is 250 KB. <<

I wanted to post like four fotos.

So how do you fix this little file size problem? Post one at a time anew? And dab nab it all anyway what the heck is a KB?

[Sorry i'm a FORTRAN guy. Remember punch cards?]

Craig Weis
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 07:58:29 AM by Craig Weis »

Offline Wayne J

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2016, 11:17:56 AM »
"You said the mast is stepped a foot above the deck? Is the mast hinged too, and lays back onto the boom gallows? If so, then I think Tim Gardner is right, it was probably re-rigged by Keith Scott or the previous owner did it with guidance from Keith Scott. I wouldn't be concerned about it, in fact, it's a nice upgrade. Shouldn't affect sailing performance other than the sail rubbing on the aft shrouds when off the wind with the main up."

Here are some pictures of the mast hinge on my CP-19. The hinge is actually 18" above the cabin top.

I have not attempted to contact Keith Scott, but I will reach out to him and let you know what he says about my rig.  I have also attached a pic of her with the mast ready for the road.

Thanks,

Wayne
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 11:45:58 AM by Wayne J »
CP-19/3 Richmond VA

Offline Wayne J

  • Rigger
  • ****
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: 0
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 06:57:27 AM »
I got confirmation from Keith Scott that my boat was one of his projects.  So that makes me feel a lot better!

He sent me this picture of the completed project.

Wayne
CP-19/3 Richmond VA

Offline Potcake boy

  • Commodore
  • ******
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: 15
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 09:25:39 AM »
Not being a naval architect, my simplistic view is that comparing the rig to that of a Horizon Cat which is roughly comparable in terms of displacement and sail area, is that the gaff rig of the HC lowers the center of effort and avoids the need for a spreader. Because of the rotating mast, my trimaran used a 3 point rig, and it generated some serious force. However, the rig was a 3/4 setup and the cap shrouds were on an 18' wide base. The shrouds and chainplates were some heavy duty equipment and stood up to the task. My only concern about such a modification on a 19' ComPac would be that the rig would stay up under the worst of conditions without a spreader. Some trailer sailboats that use this simplified rig incorporate swept back spreaders to accommodate the aft mounted upper stays. If you share my concern, you may wish to investigate the possibility of swept back spreaders, and perhaps consult ComPac on the viability of this modification.
Ron
Pilot House 23 - GladRags
Punta Gorda Florida

A mouse around the house - but much hotter on the water

Offline Damsel19

  • Grinder
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: 0
Re: Prior owner changed rigging
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2017, 05:53:55 AM »
I have often wanted to add a mast hinge above the deck. I assume the compression post has been replaced by a stub mast that penatrates the deck?  With out debating the shroud and stay modifications, (wich are really a seperate mod from the raised hinge) the only down side I see is rhe increased height. Although, I can't ever remember towing my boat through a drive through. This rig might be ten feet tall. The benefit as I have seen on other boats is the boom and mainsail remain attached to the stub mast below the hinge. I have trailered and launched many booats rigged this way and the rig goes up in less than 2 minutes. Just reconnect the head stay...